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MG MGB Technical - Weber (outlaw) downdraft

Looking for information about The Weber Outlaw downdraft. Anyone have any experience with it?

I am familiar with the DCOE and know it takes a lot to get it dialed in right. Is the carb similar in that aspect, or does it tune more like the DGV?

Finally how does it run with a mild cam but otherwise stock engine?
John

The main difference between the outlaw and the dgv is that the dgv is a progressive throttle where as the outlaw opens up both butterfly's at the same time.
James

The DGV has a 32mm primary and the 36mm secondary. The outlaw has two 38mm barrels that open together. I know the DCOE requires individual tuning on each barrel, similar to if you had twin carbs on.

Does the outlaw have individual mixture settings or does it share the one mixture screw like the dgv?

Aslo, does it require rejetting like the DCOE to make it operate right without hesitation? Power gains?

I am looking for more power, but I realize the DCOE is a little much for my engine, sounds like this may be what I am looking for. I just dont want to end up with a headache trying to tune it.
John

John,
We have had a few MGBs in the shop equiped with the "Outlaw" carb and I have been very impressed with their performance. I've owned and driven MGBs for decades, with every configuration of carb set-up and the Outlaw has been the most impressive powerwise.(for stock or mildly tuned engines)
Pete
PAC219

What is the "Outlaw" carb please? How did it get its name? I'm ashamed to say I've never heard of it!

Mike
Mike Standring

Hi,
The "Outlaw" is a twin 38mm synchronous choke downdraft. It's bigger than the standard 32/36mm DGV downdraft and both barrels open together, creating more horsepower and greater off the line torque.
Regards
michel

PAC219,
A positive first hand account was what I was hoping for. It sounds like this is what I have been looking for!

Mike, go to http://www.brittek.com and look at their weber kits, they list the outlaw. Very resonable for a performance carb.

Thanks!!
john

John,
If you have never had experience with webers and are going to go about setting up and tuning yourself, please do not anticipate the carb just bolting up and running like a dream. You should highly consider getting it setup by someone familiar with the carbs. Thats the one thing that I feel the SUs will always have over the webers,ease of setting up and tuning yourself. I do not know of any jet settings for the outlaw. There are settings for the 32/36 and the sidedrafts in Peter Burgess's book, but none for the outlaw. You also need to consider what choke you want to run. Manual is the easiest in my opinion. But slightly a hassle.

Ive emailed these guys and they have recommended jet sizes for me in the past for a different car I own. They have no problem recommending sizes if they need to be changed, just purchase the jets from them ... That is if you want to give it a go yourself.

http://www.allcarbs.com/techtips.html

and browse their website.
james

James,
I have ran the DGV for years and I am very familiar with it. I also know others who have used the DCOE and had lots of trouble. To the best of my understanding the outlaw is set up more like the DGV and meant for a stock to mildly tuned engine. I think I am going to have to purchase one and give it go. If I run into any trouble I will definately use your guys for jets. Thanks!

John

All,

I have run the "Outlaw" from Brit-tek for a couple of years. I cannot recommend better nicer person than Bob, always ready to help. Good economy and better off the line performance. And this was compared with a rebuild set of SU's, not a knackered old set. Dead reliable, and have traveled across the US, Mexico, and Central America with it.

Initially I started with the 32/36, but was disappointed with off the line. Got the 38/38- Outlaw has was pleased.

I went with the manual choke, version. I made some modifications to mine, with regards to the filter. I used another base, and cast a new top, and connected it to a larger K&N exiting in front of the raditor.

I took it off the car a year ago, when I changed cams, and went with PHH44 Mikuni. The outlaw with the air filter housing is up for sale, if anyone is interested.

Shareef
Shareef Hassan

Shareef,
The more I hear about the outlaw the more I like. How was your car set up that you ran it on. (stock or modified, if modified to what extent).
To clear the air, did it require rejetting?
Finally, what kind of mileage did you get with it?
I am very interested in knowing more and may just take that off your hands.
John

John,

The modifications I made to my car was mild, as I would like it to be streetable and reliable.

Peter Burgess' book was read cover to cover. Binding is fall apart.

I was a student when I started so things were done in a progression as my earning power increased.

1973 18 V - 1.625 intake
I did a DIY head with 3-angle valve job, Rimflow valves, bulleted guides.

Crane Ignition System, Lucas dizzy.
Peco Header and Exhaust.
Stock cam.

Line honed block.
.040 over pistons dished pistons.
Chambers equalized.
Engine and components balanced. Final Compression ratio 9.6 : 1

Engine ran well with overhauled SU's, solid throttle disk, with reprofile shaft. K&N filters, with the big aluminum ribbed cover.

Economy for me is funny thing. Nice to know you can do it, but really enjoy the car spiritly. This combination I was probably 30 MPG, at 65 MPH cruise.


Next step.

32/36 Weber from Brit-tek.
Changed the valve train to Doug Jackson's 1.55:1 Roller Rockers. Looking for something more repeatable. Made an extra support pedastle for valve 8 and 1.

Tubular pushrods, and hardness tested lifters with oil hole.

K/N O2 monitor and O2 Sensor.

From CT drove car to Mexico City and then to LA. No trouble with carb, but seemed a little flat. Needed to stomp on it to get the other barrel on. It only kicks in after 2/3 travel. I would say I was probably at 32 MPG same test.

Next Step.

Decided to continue with the Weber experiment and bought the 38/38. Manifold needs a little machining.

Did not like the look of the small filter on top. Scientifically I am sure it is fine, but is was on top of the hot manifold area. K&N used to make an Weber right angle inlet. Because it was very short the inlet was only a 2.5" dia. So I made a cold air intake with a big K&N in the front of the rad with 4" smooth ducting to a 180 degree PVC elbow that steps down to the 2.5"

Upgrading the ignition to Mallory dual point, but send the assembly to Pertronics to retrofit it with one of their triggers. Worked out less than their Unilite, and I read some where that magnets are a better trigger than light. On an MGB we are probably really not going to ever feel it, but my wallet did.

At the same time I but in a Jacobs Ignition I.C.E. computer. Jacobs company especially its founder had made ignition their passion, and system required no splicing. The Mallory timed everything, and computer took care of the rest.

Much happy with the result. With synchonous opening, throttle response is much snappier. I would say it was a draw, but I did have to rejet one size smaller. As I said Bob at Brit-tek is a great guy and he helped me out. The K/N monitor gives great feed back once you are in the range. I was probably at 31 MPG, but I liked to open it up. I was usually doing 75-85 MPH, so I was trading some fuel economy. The car went from CT to Miami no troubles. Then I took from Miami, via New Orleans, back through Mexico, and on to Central America, where it resides now. Ignition and carb ran flawlessly. Car only rested from my heat exhaustion.

Next Step
Did not like the look of the step down cold-air intake, so I cast a custom top for the filter and bought a 180 degree polish aluminum mandrel bent piece. It looks very nice.

Now that I am married I feel my discretionary income is less than a student. So instead of throwing money at the problem, I spending more time reading and building the next upgrades.

This round was BP 270 cam, Mikuni PHH44, and Matt Kimmel's EDIS system. It required some machining and fabrication, but I am hooked. I figure I am around 27 MPG but the tires have gotten fatter too. I do not have access to 4 lane highways to give it a long steady cruise.

I am thinking of upgrading to a crossflow and building an individual runner EFI system for it. I am at the CAD stage right now. For me, it will always be about mid-range torque rather than ultimate horsepower. But that is what I like.

John I hope this explains it as clear as I can.

Shareef
Shareef Hassan

This thread was discussed between 21/04/2008 and 24/04/2008

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