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MG MGF Technical - More thrust !


I need more thrust !

My VVC seems to be lacking a bit of go ! Whilst not a dangerously fast driver - I do consider myself a bit of a go'er.

I've driven other F's with K&N and think that they are awfully loud- especially with the hood down.

What other attachments or accessories can I purchase to spice up the speed without compromising on looks or sound.

Sara

How many miles has your car done? You'll find it'll speed up after 20k.
Other than the K&N, you then get into serious mods, namely a supercharger. At £5,800 it ain''t cheap.

My next step is to get some track training, knowing how to use the potential of the car is probably the best value. (I've been beaten hands down by lesser cars who's drivers have been properly trained.)
Gareth

Er, and possibly marginal improvements from a different exhaust, but that's hardly the ideal suggestion if you think the noise of a K&N is bad...
David Bainbridge

There is also the ITG induction airfilter kit, but this is rather more expensive, but you get a similar boost in performance as from the K&N.

Steve.
Steve Childs

...and the ITG will be quieter (the filter is completely enclosed). Not cheap though unfortunately.

The filter is STILL easily the cheapest and most effective performance mod you can make to the MGF. If you don't like the 57i kit, an alternative is to use a K&N panel filter, and re-route the intake air supply to the near side engine bay intake (as recommended by Roger Parker and many others) for cold air supply. It is effective- probably nearly as effective as a well set up 57i.

More info on this on http://www.mgf.4mg.com and click the "filter" button.
Rob Bell


Current mileage is 44K - so really it's now or never that my F is going to be able to dish it out ! Am I the only one who thinks a K&N is noisy ?

Perhaps I should re consider ? How much does it speed up acceleration ? is it expensive or difficult to fit ?
Sara

The K&N is really only noisey when accelerating, when cruising, it's OK. I also have a supersports exhaust and no cat, nor that IS loud.

It's about 100 quid, easy job to fit - it comes with full instructions.

I notice the extra grunt mid-range on the VVC, so bettter accelation from lower down the range - it's not huge tho. But it's prob the best value mod you can do. Price/Power gain
HTH
Gareth

Sara, the K&N filter is about £70-80 and fitting is probably free if you come along to one of the Meetings - the next one is in Luton on the 5th ;) - fitting it is very easy.

I can't really comment on the performance gains for the VVC as I don't have one, but it apparently frees up 15bhp and a bit of torque, so by all accounts it should make it feel a bit quicker. Certainly, with the VVC anything that helps the breathing will help it go quicker.

Steve.
Steve Childs

>>I've driven other F's with K&N <<
have you driven others without the K&N - if so, how did they compare ? It's all too easy for a car to become lacklustre over time - a visit to a Rover Dealer and a check on Testbook may show up a failing sensor.

I do have a K&N on my VVC and yet I do agree about them being noisy. I'm not convinced it's worth the insurance hassle either, but the K&N installation does help to keep the MEMS computer cool.

IMO, the VVC engine isn't worth tuning (The MPi maybe is).

Steve
Steve

Steve in Farnborough - I'm a bit confused. Are you saying I should or shouldn't have one fitted. You agree that it's noisy and suggest that the power gains aren't all that - do I understand correctly ?

Steve Childs, that is a very kind offer. I really would come but am scheduled to be in Portugal that evening with my job.

£70 or £80 seems pretty reasonable - if I hate it I can always take it off ?
Sara

I have K&N fitted on my VVC it was very reasonable, there was another bit I had to buy as well but can't remember what it was. I'm sure one of these guys will be able to tell you. It really does make a difference though.

I wish someone had offered to fit mine ! What's your secret Sara ?
Samantha

It's in the choice of thread heading Samantha;-)
Gareth

i just checked on the K&N site - the filter is £75.57. Do I need anything else ?
Sara

Watch that Gareth fella - his idea of thrust might be different to yours - in the heading or elsewhere!
Cpl Kite

was that for the 57i Induction kit? Or just the filter.
If just the filter, it's a good idea to get some pipes (from Halfords 50mm x 1m two of.) and cable ties, to feed cold air up from under the car. Also, look up Tom Randle on this site as he makes a bracket to hold the pipes in place under the car (a tenner I think). That's ll you'll need
Gareth

we're not all tarts like you Kite;-)
Gareth

Few points:

1. I find that the K&N *seems* much noisier with the roof up, though of course it probably just seems like that because of the evn-more-reduced wind/tyre noise. I can't beleive I've fitted it wrong, though, from the difference its made to the car's performance - the alteration to responsiveness between 2500 and 4000rpm has been really striking on my car (VVC) and I don't see why an MPi should be much different. I now find that I can keep up with almost everything on the road - i.e. not motorbikes, Elises, M3's, TVRs on the straight of course. Far better than the noise, tho' I like that too.

2. Also, by 44K, could plugs and leads be an issue? I think they're supposed to be changed at 60K (?) but that some people strongly urge you to change them earlier.

3. I'm seriously considering a splitter. I know they don't make the car go faster as such, but if they make it more stable, then I think I might find it 'easier' to attain high speeds (where the law allows, officer), if you know what I mean.
David Bainbridge

I find that the K&N on my MPi helps the engine breath easier and as a consequence goes through the revs much more quickly and without hesitation - sounds great too!

And I agree that at 44k the engine would benefit from new plugs and possibly leads.

Ted

PS I agree with Kite watch the dreaded Gareth Ddraig - the girls are safe its the fellas that must be careful:-)
Ted Newman

just checked again on the site it is £75.57 for the kit which includes a 10% discount if you put in the code MG group.

Sorry how do I fit one of these bad boys and how long will it take ?
Sara

About an hour Sara. Directions both in the FAQ (linked from this board) and on http://www.mgf.4mg.com

Tom's bracket is a good idea- it keeps the cooling ducts out of harms way- much better than K&N's own efforts. See http://www.crosswinds.net/~mgfgallery/bracket/bracket.htm for more details.
Rob Bell

Hi Sara,
I have just fitted a K&N to my 96 VVC, and I would never take it off!!.

Took my about an hour, then didi a friends too, and we got it done in about 20 mins! Id be happy to help you put it on if you need help!

That is a genuine offer! No hidden catches (For all the other guys! Im Married!)

Kind Regards

Steve
Steve Marsh

Coming over a bit schizo there Ted? You're right though Ddraig's reputation proceeds him !

SBD

>>Steve in Farnborough - I'm a bit confused. Are you saying I should or shouldn't have one fitted. <<

You've now heard the noise, if it's acceptable to you, and your insurance company accepts the modification, then I recommend that you fit it. It's easy to fit and makes the car feel faster. Just don't expect miracles.

Steve
Steve

Sara

If you want the power without too much noise then have a go at the flower pot enclosure as well.

Following Rob's instructions, I've just completed a K&N enclosure and it works very well!

I used a 200mm flower pot with the rim cut off and it just sqeezes in. I couldn't get a 200mm "saucer" so I used the one Homebase sell which has a 160mm diameter base this is a snug fit into the taper of the flower pot. The taper of the saucer doesn't quite fit the that of the pot but it's close enough when the bedges are taped over. Rather than use self-tappers to hold the two bits together, I've just put aluminium tape of the join, which seems quite strong. I wasn't quite sure how Rob located the filter in the saucer, but I took off the jubilee clip nearest the filter so that the saucer fits up again it's base. Tightening up the screw on the clip is a bit of a fiddle and only possible because the saucer is flexible, (polypropylene).

I used a 100mm cooker extractor adapter as the air inlet and used a hot glue gun to fix the adapter into the flower pot, then covered the whole thing with two layers of ali cooking foil. This is quite thin so I put an outer protective layer of the ali adhesive tape over the whole thing. I haven't weighed the contraption, but the single heaviest item is the K&N so at present it's all held on by the hose clip on the induction inlet thingy. The good thing about this fixing is that once the flower holding the K&N is screwed to the induction thingy, I could just rotate the housing to get the adaptor at the best angle to take the cold air hose.

I used 100cm ali cooker extraction hose for the cold air inlet because it jams nicely into the space leading under the car so I haven't fixed that in place either, one end is sprung into the socket on the flower pot and the other just hangs down vertically and rests on the subframe. I considered fitting a 90 degree bend at end, but they just didn't look aerodynamic to me and I'm not sure there is room to get the hose right under the car anyway.

Incidently, in the best traditions of fitting parts, I didn't understand Steve's reference to disconnecting the speedometer, so I ignored it - no dire consequences so far!

It took me a day and two flower pots and sockets to get the enclosure right, but early trials seem promising, especially as the total cost of bits was no more than 20GBP. Wickes and Homebase both sell pvc tubing which is cheaper than the ali, but I doubt if it could take the mechanical strain, let alone the heat.

I was worried about the effect of heat soak on the system, but it's survived two stops after long runs now with no signs of distortion, so my fears about melting plastics might be been misplaced, (at least in the UK).

Induction noise from the air filter is much reduced and low-down torque, (as indicated when pulling away from 20pkh in 2nd gear is far better. Oil and water temperatures remain the same, but I have no way of measuring the engine compartment.

I still intend to have my car serviced by a dealer, so I suspect I will have to dismantle the whole thing myself to avoid it being wrecked. That way I should save part of the labout charge as well. Thanks to Rob for his idea, Steve & Paul for pushing me into action and the anonymous Lotus boys, (persons?) who invented the thing.

I am well pleased, like a dogwith two tails.

Chris
Chris

>>>>Induction noise from the air filter is much reduced

Aw!
David Bainbridge

Nice idea regarding the inset 160 mm lid Chris- my solution is relatively untidy. Will modify to your suggestion- cheers! :o)

>>I wasn't quite sure how Rob located the filter in the saucer, but I took off the jubilee clip nearest the filter so that the saucer fits up again it's base. Tightening up the screw on the clip is a bit of a fiddle and only possible because the saucer is flexible, (polypropylene).<<

That's exactly how I did it too: the saucer is simply 'sandwiched' in place.

Glad it works so well. :o)
I think the effectiveness of this mod and its very low cost is going to make any additional improvements with a custom airbox incredibly difficult- if only by virtue of the laws of diminishing returns! We shall see.

20 quid for flower pot conversion versus 250 quid for an ITG. Hmm...
Rob Bell

Sara,

Where abouts in Hampshire are you, as I have also done the K&N on a VVC mod. No fancy flowerpot mod though :-) If you need a hand, drop me an email.

Paul
M2 PJW

P.S. I like the sound (sad I know)
Paul

check general thread on filter + heat shield. ought to give ideas on modifying the k&n to gain some more 'thrust'.
Jason

Rob.

Do you have power comparisons between the flowerpot and the K&N panel filter? Both offer cool air at low speed, but the flowerpot offers better air flow, so I wondered if this makes a significant difference.

Chris
Chris

The answer to that is no Chris- but I agree it would be nice to know!
Rob Bell

Sorry to be several days behind the discussion, but is that why the K&N's noisy - because it has no airbox?

Flobadob!
David Bainbridge

I don't understand. With the flowerpot how much peat do I have to use and how often do you have to water the thing?..........
OK where's my coat.
Paul

Paul

No need - Bill, Ben & Weed look after it for you!

Ted
Ted Newman

Hi all,

I have been playing with ITG kits on a couple of cars recently with other mods, one is my car which I have rambled on about on a number of occasions before, and the other was a standard MPi.

I am quite familiar with the advantages of the K&N, such as they are. Inlet air temp variations though eat into the potential torque gains, with greater reductions the hotter the inlet air. However it is with induction noise that is my personal main beef with the MGF configuration. Note though that I use a clamp on filter to feed 250bhp of MGBV8 EFi though and that is a completely different level of sound, and it's also not in your left ear!

I do not have quantified results yet due to rolling road problems (it was hit by a flash flood!) but you do not need thet to confirm that the addition of the ITG provides a huge boost to the torque and engine response. I broad terms I would say that there is as much gain again with the ITG as I found when creating my own modification and cold air pick up. The effect being very marked at lower rpm where the torque boost provides a clear acceleration bonus.

The results from the ITG are without question a cut above the K&N. Only the much higher cost making this a less easy choice.

Induction sound from the ITG is quite a bit higher than standard. It has a deep purposful rumble which never intrudes, ideal for my purposes.

The benefits continue beyond the standard engine too. When I fitted a modified head to this MPi it was clearly considerably quicker than before with the head mods opening up the upper third of the rev band far more. However with the engine becominmg so much smnoother from evening out individual cylinder combustion, the lower rpm areas seemed little changed, that is until you actually use familiar roads and see how much more speed is achieved in the same distances and how much weaker the brakes seem.

I anticipate that in peak power terms this engine now has probably around the VVC level, maybe slightly more or slightly less. However it is under peak power where the real benefits are, and here I expect to see may be a 15%, possibly towards 20%, increase in torque which
really puts distance between it and any other standard MGF.

Rog
Roger Parker

I haven't seen an ITG kit, do you have any details please Roger?
Gareth

>I anticipate that in peak power terms this engine now has probably around the VVC level<
Won't this work with the VVC too?
Dot

http://www.itgairfilters.com/
Dot

Wow, I've read the instructions and I think I can do quite a bit of it but some things I think are probably beyond my limited experience (with cars).

I would take up the kind offers of fitting the K&N Filter but my where abouts are quite unpredictable becuase of my job. As of Saturday the car is going to be parked up for a whole week at Luton airport using airport transfers tunbridge wells because I'm doing long haul.

I have ordered the K&N kit and think It'll arrive on Friday. Can anyone reccomend a garage in Luton that could do the job and that i could leave safely leave the car with for a week ?

Sara

I would think if you're really lucky, you'd find one of the Luton F Posse who'd a) help you fit the filter (its really not difficult!), and b) let you park on their drive - gotta be cheaper than airport parking, even if you wine and dine them in return!

Neil
(too far from Luton, I'm afraid - closer to North Hants!)
Neil

Gareth,

First visit www.itgairfilters.com, as indicated and follow the product range to 'Maxogen' The MGF kit is one of the AB65 family. There are poor pictures on the site but if you see any Elise with the kit then there really is little difference. It may be worth asking them tosend you a brochure which provides quite alot of useful information and illustrations on the kit.

Dot,

There is every reason to expect that the effect on the VVC will show the same percentage gains as seen with the MPi, and so result in better results than with the current K&N 57i kit.

Rog
Roger Parker

Cheers Roger. Will do that.
Gareth


Neil,

I work for an airline so they let us park for free - thank god ! IOtherwise I would be permanently broke.

I think that it would be a bit cheeky to rtope someone into fitting the K&N. If it is as simple as you all promise it can't cost much to have it fitted.
Sara

>>>I think that it would be a bit cheeky to rtope someone into fitting the K&N. If it is as simple as you all promise it can't cost much to have it fitted.

Sara:

a) it'll cost more than roping someone in

b) people on this BBS actually *relish* doing this stuff!
David Bainbridge

As always roger talks a lot of sense and the K&N panel is filter is probably under-rated. Its biggest disadvantage is those devilish clips that hold the filter housing together.

If memory serves me correctly, Mike Satur usually has an ITG unit on his stand when he goes to shows. It looks very smart in carbon fibre and should be easily capable of handling the temperatures in the engine bay. It's also slightly smaller than a 200mm flowerpot so should fit into space more easily. The only reason I didn't get an ITG was the price of around £250GBP.

Chris
Chris

Sara, if you can get along to the Luton meet next Wednesday (5th) then either myself or Andy will fit the K&N for you- as David says, it's a piece of cake. :o)
Rob Bell

Hi Sara,

This is probaly too late now, I live a stone throw away from Luton Airport..You are more than welcome to leave your f on my drive, and Ill happily fit the K&N for you aswell whilst your away, or This Wednesday 5th September, we have a local meet in Luton, there will be about 8 chaps who will fit it for you, in return for a drink!!

Steve M

Let Us Know
Steve Marsh

>>>>You are more than welcome to leave your f on my drive, and Ill happily fit the K&N for you

And take it for a 130 mph test drive! I know your game! :D
David Bainbridge

This Wednesday (5th September)

The Bell pub - Toddington (just off of the M1, north of Luton)

If you are there Sara, I (or Rob Bell, or Steve Marsh) can help you fit it / fit it for you.

Regards
Andrew 'n' SF
Scarlet Fever

David!

You have wrecked my plan!!!

Steve!
Steve Marsh

This thread was discussed between 28/08/2001 and 04/09/2001

MG MGF Technical index

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