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MG MGF Technical - Start engine won't run, ie car wont start...

Hi all!

Just found this BBS, my first post. Then again I haven't needed to post any questions before.

My problem is that my car (MGF 1.8) won't start. All the lights come on, but the start enging won't start. I even went and bought a new battery, since I thought the old one was worn. (At one time I had to recharge it this winter after the car had been standing unused for 3 weeks.)

I checked all the fuses related to the engine. They seem alright.

The car is due for a "40000km control service", so I'll have them look at it. Still, it makes me wonder, and I'll have to get the car to the mechanics somehow.

Anyone had a similar problem?

Regards
Svante
Svante

Svante,
Do you mean the starter does not turn the engine over? If this is the cas then perhaps a lead is loose on the starter motor itself. You can check the connections to the motor by opening the boot and removing the grille over the engine. The starter motor is down below on the left hand side of the engine. Check the smallest brown lead is pushed on very firmly and that the plastic tie wrap is securing it to the solenoid body. The solenoid is cylindrical and is attached to the starter motor. It is about 7cm in diameter. All the connections are made to the solenoid. Many MGF owners have experienced bad connections at this point.
If this does not cure the problem then it may be the starter motor itself. A replacement may be required and is expensive!
If the starter motor is operating correctly but the car is not starting then this could be difficult to fault find from a distance. Check plug leads are in good conditon and plug gaps are within the tolerance. All these checks will require that you remove the engine cover below the rear window.
Hope this helps you, good luck.
Bruce
Bruce Caldwell


Hi Svante,

As the starter-motor has no ground-return to chassie as "normal" starters on other cars there is a special return -cable from the starter to chassie. You will see this black , rather thich cable going from starter to a point opposite to luggage space in the engine bay. This cable and itīs connections is prone to oxidation. Grip the cable and move it around to clear any bad contact and if Your lucky it will be possible to start. There is of course several other things that can be causing this problem but this is the main thing. If to no avail and car still stubborn try 0523-611032.

Regards , Carl.
Carl

Svante,

welcome to the club :)

Assume the starter motor can stick. If so than some knocks to the solenoid will help.
Also check the wiring and connections to the starter motor.

BTW, there is another thread currently with probabbly the same starting problems.

HTH
Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

*g*, me assumes here wrote three guys parallel :))
Dieter Koennecke

Hi guys!

Thanks 4 your replies. Actually, the car started this morning That doesn't mean the problem is solved though. Oxidation could be a possible reason. I'll have it checked. I read somewhere else that the ECU might causing problems. Anybody know? How much is a new starter motor?

Regards, Svante
Svante

Cost of starter is about Ģ200 GBP. Cost of fitting about 100 GBP! Ouch
Bruce
Bruce Caldwell

>Cost of starter is about Ģ200 GBP

my second hand spare will be cheaper *advertising* :)

Hope it's not the ECU. Yes, I know already of two cases. One was Luc fom Brussel. He got my old ECU.
Another one currently suffers from this failure here in Germany.
He mentionend about any exchange and repair in the UK, cause none are availiable from new currently. 400 EUR repair and 800 EUR for a new one .. Ouch^3

Just check the cables to the starter. Hope it's that.

Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Hi Svante,

As Dieter already indicated, my July 1996 MGF 1.8 Mpi (this is a non-VVC) suffered repeatedly a starting problem in Spring this year. Often when I switched the car-key, the engine tried to fire up the engine, but kept sputtering. When it finally succeeding in firing up after sputtering, black stinking smoke emanated from the exhaust pipes. It was sometimes after a night in damp weather conditions. Sometimes the starting went well during a couple of days, but then suddenly it was trouble-time again.

I replaced most mechanical parts related to starting (battery, high-tension leads, battery-cables, sparking plugs, etc. - I also cleaned my K&N filter and used additives, assuming that very maybe this would be the cause of the starting problems), but the starting problem kept recurring over and over again. A car that fails to start is a very-very frustrating situation.

Ran out of mechanical possibilities for determining the cause of the problem, my final option was to decide to replace the ECU (this option was saved to the last, as an ECU is quite an expensive car-part). Dieter was kind to sell me a used ECU. The MG-dealership was prepared to replace the existing ECU, but informed me that they thought that it would not remedy the problem ("We're tellin' ya: it's a mechanical problem, not an electronic one"). Well, the ECU proved to MG-dealership to be *wrong*: ever since this ECU was replaced by another one, my car has *always* started without any hesitation whatsoever again !

Probably, over the course of the years (approx. 5 years) humidity has gotten a way to somehow intrude the ECU and sometimes fool around with the electronic ciruitry inside the ECU. This is my point of view, as I had noticed that - during the trouble-period - once you had managed to start the MGF, the problem was gone for the rest of the day (flawless starts each time you switched the key): the engine heat dissipated the small particles of humidity which possibly had intruded the ECU. But after a couple of hours, especially in the morning, humidity (damp conditions) returned... to spoil your morning with bad starts.

I'm touching wood, but I'm glad that my MGF's dreadful starting problem is remedied since a couple of months... not by selling on the MGF, but by replacing the ECU ;-)

Now, no need for you to rush into the conclusion that your MGF also has a faulty ECU; it could be something mechanical (faulty spark plugs, bad high-tension leads, bad battery, etc.), but keep the "Think electronic"-idea also somewhere in the back of your mind :-)

Good luck,
-- Luc --
Luc

Hi,

Svante, please don't panic about our ECU chat !!
It's as Luc mentioned really one of the last cases.

But nice to see you Luc with your brief description about that failure. The faulty part is still alive and I would like to add that obviously no moisture got in. It was best sealed before I opened it. One air bubble in the silicone moisture protection varnish layer at two ASIC legs, thats all.
I still suppose that any of the power MOS FET or whatever the name of these black Switch Devices at the cooling sinks are can be the reason of the intermitted failure. At any time we will find it out. :)

Just to add to the files the translation of the above mentioned other MEMS failure report:
- control for the fuel pump damaged. Means that the immobilizer doesn't release the affiliated relais any more. I does only for a short time (app. 1 second)
Result: Starter runs but the engine doesn't fire up. No fuel smell at the exhaust.

BTW. this failure sounds like if the emergency switch on the left hand engine bay side is off from any impact ;)

Anyway, of no much help for Svante.

Dieter

Dieter Koennecke

I had exactly the same things and it turned out to be dirty HT leads connection! (had it too with my brother's F but that was a short circuit causing the fuse to blow all the time)

Of course the umbrella trick can also ignite your car in case the startmotor is stuck

(sigh, am I happy to have sold this prehistoric technology...)
proud M3 owner :)

Hi!

Thanks again for your replies. I recognize the garage mechanics "It's a mechanical problem". Bah!

I find that a lot of the time dealerships and mechanics just can't solve it when it comes down to electronics. They are just not trained for it.

I had problems before with the engine starting (not a starter motor problem). The problem turned up when it was cold outside, around 0 degrees C. It turned out to be a faulty "temperature gauge" that signalled the wrong temperature to the ECU. They (the dealership) found this out after checking the oil and other mechanical stuff. Only after hooking my MGF into a PC a running the dignose program could they tell what it was.

Anyway, my car has been working for the last couple of days. I hope the problem was just because of an old battery, and not having the new battery charge up (something?) to actually start the starter motor.

Regards,
Svante

(Crossing my fingers...)
Svante

This thread was discussed between 19/08/2001 and 21/08/2001

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