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MG MGF Technical - The Hurricane Blows In ...

Just completed fitting ... report and pics coming up later this evening ... stay tuned ...

Gaz
Gaz

...fitting what?
Steve

The Merlin.........
Ted Newman

Hurricane air filter?
Dot

Looking forward to this...!

Leigh
Leigh

well, Gaz ?
how about it ?
performance ? sound ? quality ?
Bob vanM

Uploading in ten minutes ....
Gaz

Here it is ...

http://uk.geocities.com/gvrawlins/

Enjoy

Gaz
Gaz

Hmmm.

Would be interested to know what the different performance wise is from using the side intake vent and open to bottom of car. Unfortunately a rolling road test wouldn't tell you that!

Looks good, think I may be turned to the dark side! What sort of performance gain do you reckon it's given over the standard set-up?
L Reid

... alternative site fro those seeing the exceeded bandwith msg ... http://www.geocities.com/gvrawlins/

Gaz
Gaz

Gaz, what material is the enclosure/heatshield made of? if metal, would'nt it be better to paint it as you did the induction feed hose?

Anyway, nice pics & cool mod.

Have a look at the KITS section at

http://www.simota.com.au/

High-Flow Cold Air Intake Extension System.

Jason

You mentioned you fed the cold air pipe the same as the K&N thus I assume picking up air from under the car.

I would be careful with this especially when going through flood water as it can easily be covered and could suck up water.

When Techspeed fitted my ITG/PTP filter they used the side vent as it is higher so less likely to get completely covered.

Tom
Tom Randell

Hmm, looks as though you'll need to remove the resonantor box Gaz to gain access to the nearside engine vent...

Nice work! Nice web page, with a terrific description of the reasons behind the purchase and what's involved with the kit. Superb mate! :o)

A RR would be interesting if you can run a K&N and this Hurricane back to back...
Rob Bell

Gaz, this type of kit is available from ourselves shortly,the spun ali housing and filter is made by Green filters and called the 'Twister'(?) We have been evaluating the fitting and air flow capacities for further engine upgrades.The installation will be the similar to the PX Viper we have developed with the weight of the filter housing supported on the existing airbox bracket and air duct to the lower part of the engine bay.The Ali kit is considerably heavier than the Carbon fibre item of the PX kit.The filter used is a green cotton filter as opposed to the foam type on the PX and ITG. a BACK TO BACK ON THE VARIOUS SYSTEMS COULD BE AN IDEA;-)
mIKE.
mike

Gaz, page looks good, funny to see the white hose ;)
Have you thought of tightening the ducting hose? Stop any movement. If it's moving against some other material you'll end up with wear spots in it!

As soon as we will 'do' the MGF, we'll find a solution for a side air intake. (which will include a specific adapter)
A problem you might encounter now is sucking in too much dirt and water which is not really what you want ;)
Please keep an eye on that!

Mike, sorry, the Hurricane is not the same as the Twister. The Twister is what we took off with, but we found some very disturbing design flaws.. Green is doing the Hurricane on another mold now which is exclusively made for us.
The twister will simply not perform like the Hurricane does!
By the way, the weight difference from the Hurricane kit compared to the 57i is just a mere 200 grams.. Not much to worry about!
Yvo Tuk

Ok gang, my journey into work ... Maidenhead took in the lovely route of A3->M25->M4. So I've had a chance to give the kit a run in. All I can say is from a performance point of view the K&N just doesn't cut it.
One strange thing and I hadn't noticed it before until this morning was ... no induction roar ... its quite strange not to hear it now after 2yrs. I only get the rumble of the Janspeed which I think is more than enough. I can't continue to emphasise this fact - acceleration thru the rev range is superb. Once Yvo works out a complete kit with the appropriate pricing there is no choice.

>> Jason

The enclosure is made of metal - it looks too good to paint !!

>> Tom

Once I work out how to remove the rest of the OEM airbox ducting I'll move it across to the side air vent. The sucking of air is quite apparent with the engine at idling so this is one of my big concerns for unwanted debris.

>> Rob

I couldn't quite work out how to remove the resonator box. At one end of the ducting there was another pipe attached which seemed to head off towards the back of the engine (it was covered in heat shield material - no idea what its for).

>> Yvo

The ducting is fairly secure. I was concerned about the weight of the enclosure and filter. Those with plastic throttle bodies may need to beware - I clamped mine fairly tightly to the Torphy tb. Get cracking on the *F* version you have a large untapped market - 'speed to market' is important !!

Gaz
Gaz

Gaz,

nice piece of kit,

I must say, that the Hurricane on my Elise gives an awsome noise, but that is through the side air intake.
This is even better than the sound of the K&N that I had before.
I think that your intake roar is under your car, where the intake is.
try to attach it to the side intake as soon as possible, to get the fantastic induction roar ( and prevent dirt and water being sucked in)

you will love it even more than now already !!

Bob vanM



Bob vanM

Hi Gaz,

If it's true and you've guided the air intake hose to below the car, please re-guide the hose to the air intake vent! As Bob said, you don't want to suck dust and/or water into the engine!
We will work on a side vent adaptor ASAP which eventually gives the engine even more (cold) air to breath!

Regards

Erik van Oosterhout
Tuning Concept
Erik van Oosterhout

Rob,

Sounds like there is a need for another airfilter test day to compare the newer sealed airbox filters.

Compared to the K&N the ITG is much better throughout the rev range similar to the hurricane.

Tom
Tom Randell

Tom- I completely agree! :o)

Let's give Yvo time to properly develop the Hurricane kit (unless we use Gaz's?)- and then let's get the cars on a rolling road!

Gaz, are you up for some RR testing?

I'm going to try and make my own airbox as a 'baseline enclosure'- so the aerodynamics of the Hurricane and ITG can be compared with a low baseline.

I'll bring the K&N. Tom- has your car got the ITG now? Gaz?

Are there any other air filter kits we should consider? I kind of fancy trying a Japanese HKS filter (stainless steel- makes a completely different noise to a K&N- might be interesting!)
Rob Bell

Guyz,

I'm willing and able ... I'm going to try and re-route the cold feed hose this weekend ...

Let me know.

Gaz
Gaz

Yvo, thanks for the clarification, I have a Twister on evaluation but could see some flow problems that would cause a loss of potential with the design, as you have corrected, one of the reasons why we opted for the Piper Cross Viper hybrid,we have this fitted to a VVC with good results, awaiting RR tests.
Mike.
mike

If we are planning comparison test. It would be good to repeat the tests with the Trophy Throttle body so that a combined effect can be measured. If this is somewhere near London I am happy to get involved.
Stephen Ratledge

Stephen, I really want to look at TB comparisons- but that is an order of complication that we may not need here- let's see how many filters we need to look at first.

Shall keep you posted regarding the TB tests in any case!

Mike- might we 'borrow' the twister for these tests, and would you be interested in submitting a filter and come along and join us?

Gaz- remember to bring along your standard plastic TB- we may need to revert your car to the standard intake configuration.
Rob Bell

I am surprised that you are finding it difficult to route the air pipe to the side vent. I have a K&N panel fiter in the standard box, but have a cold air pickup pipe directly from this to the LH side vent - it just meant removing the standard trunking (resonator was left in place, took only a few minutes, and some very grazed knuckles!). If you have already removed the standard box then, with the attached trunking removed the route should be pretty clear.
By the way, if another air filter comparison test is conducted, it shouod ideally include the setup I have on my car - a K&N panel filter in the standard box, but with a cold air pickup direct to the side vent - this is a lot better than just the panel filter as tested in previous comparisons!
Jason H
Jason H

Gaz,

Great description.

Have you got anything else of interest on your website?

Andy
Andy

Rob,

Yep my car has the ITG/PTP filter.
I have emailed you aswell I assume your email address is still the same.

Tom
Tom Randell

Jason, good point. You have a set up that is nearly identical to Roger's. Given that this is the lowest cost option, the other air filter options are going to be a whole load better to justify the additional expense (35 quid versus upto 350!)

Tom, yup, same mail address... :o)
Rob Bell

Hey Gaz, can you mail me? Cheers!
Rob Bell

The reason I did not attach the feed hose to the resonator ducting was I'd end up with two sharp bends in the air flow. The ducting from the resonator is almost pointing into the front of the engine bay. The side air vent is located lower down ahead of this ducting. Imagining the flow ... air enters the vent does an almost 270 degree turn then another 290 degree turn as it exits the ducting and up thru the Hurricane cold feed hose. Finally it does a 90 degree turn on its way into the filter. Very poor ...
I'd like to remove the resonator and route the Hurricane hose as close to the exterior skin as I can get it. If you look through the left hand side air vent theres a lot going on inside there that could obstruct air flow. The right hand air vent is a lot simpler (... cos the engine bay fan is there ...).
But I agree with all having the hose pick from under the car is not a good idea.

Gaz
Gaz

It would also be interesting to test the intake arrangement from the Trophy/TF against the Hurricane and PTP systems.

Paul
P9 VLS
Paul

Some things to keep in mind....

When you want to compare air filters and the performance they bring or steal from your engine, you should compare it in a 'real world situation'.

Oops... a RR?

To give you some background:
The Hurricane kit was originally designed for the Lotus Elise.
During this development, we loaded some Elises with all sorts of filters and went off to a RR. NO (!) result...
As we were pretty sure of what we felt (we tested the Hurricane kit on several Elises with several drivers) we knew there was something but we were not sure why and where...

The only thing we tried in addition to the normal RR test was increasing the air flow on the side air vent. And there it was... 3BHP, 6NM... extra, for adding a bit air..

With those results, we went back and decided to ask a aerodynamics consultancy to help us out. Besides all changes we made to the original design, we came to the conclusion that it is pretty impossible to do a fair comparison of an open air filter to a cold air box airfilter on a RR. Simply, because the airflow on an RR is not realistic!

One option would be to hire some hours on a windtunnel, but that would be way to expensive in this product development..

Some things about the principle of a good cold air induction system..
Ono could opt for a ducting hose from the air vent to an open air filter and blow air into the filter. This option will not work as you will introduce a vacuum at the other side of the filter... thus sucking in hot engine bay air at the same speed resulting in a bad (bouncing!) air mixture.

So, there should at least be an enclosure to be sure not to suck in warm air.

At the same time, one of the big performance killers is turbulence! If you just put a box around a filter and connect a ducting hose to it, you'd proably end up having no gains.. Turbulence which feeds into the throttle body can be compared with turbulence in an air plain... you fall down because there's not enough pressure under the wing. The same goes for turbulence in the inlet plenum. If there's turbulence in the plenum, a combustion chamber will receive less oxygen for at least one cycle and you'll loose power.

What we ended up with for the Elise is a system that is engineered from air vent to throttle body.

Now some of you will say: "Besides the cold air, there's no gain because the engine will suck in air faster then you can ram it in using vehicle speed!!". True! Although we do compress some air at the air vent, it's simply impossible to have any ram effect below 160mph. But.... if you would draw a scale which runs from "drawing in air on engine power" to "blowing in air, powering the engine", the effect of the Hurricane Induction system would put the cross way from the "drawing in.." mark towards the "powering" mark! Thus, it will not generate power on itself, it will use the airstream to help the engine sucking in the air.

One last point: (this is getting way too much text ;)
People spend big time on well flowed cylinder heads, plenums, manifolds etc. etc. All with one thing in mind: "improvement of the airflow". We simply expanded that filosophy all the way from the air vent to the throttle body...

Yvo Tuk

Nice info Yvo ...

Gaz
Gaz

Yvo- no worries, I am pretty clued into the limitations of RR comparisons, and you've summarised it all pretty well here.

A RR is a tool- nothing more nothing less. It gives us specific information about a certain circumstance which is sadly removed from true road conditions. But at least it will give some information about the flow characteristics of each system- if there are restriction with any of these systems, the RR will show it up.

For a full comparison, we'd need some on road data. Here it would be useful to decamp to an airfield (Bruntingthorpe perhaps?) and look at acceleration and in-gear times with an accelerometer (AP90- anyone got one and like to join us in the fun?).


If you'd like, I could copy you into the discussions. Mail me if you are interested.
Rob Bell

I've got a Hurricane system fitted on my Elise and the difference with the system is quite noticable, the K-series engine now revs up to the rev limiter like a rabit 'doing his job' :-)
Peter

This thread was discussed between 13/02/2002 and 18/02/2002

MG MGF Technical index

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