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MG TD TF 1500 - 1950 MG TD ebay #310344681716

Check out this really nice 1950 MG TD. I thought the rear transmission mount looked like a 5-speed conversion so I ask and here is the reply I received back.

Dear rel_iks,

Dear Sir,
In my 58 years selling great motorcars around the world, I have been selling MG's since the 1950's, this car is a complete restoration. The MG is not a 5-speed, it's a 4-speed and it is like it left the factory.

- schmittmotorcars

Check it out guys and tell me what you think.

ebay item #310344681716
Richard Taylor TD3983

Nice looking car but the gearbox and gearbox mount are clearly not stock.
John Quilter (TD8986)

I dont know about a 5 speed, but it dont look like mine on my 51TD. Nice looking car however. Dont know that I like the 31 grand ticket, but more power to him, makes mine worth more I guess.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Picture #46 ..."front" of what? Sure looks like a modified tranny mount to me.
At BIK of $34k I would want 5 speed & orginial 4 speed! (and then some!)
Very nice car but not "concourse" as I would expect at that kind of price.
Hope he gets it ...makes all ours worth more.
I've got $50.00 that says closes with no bids ...any takers?
David Sheward

Richard, It is a nice looking car, but I agree, that it is not an origional tranny, but maybe an origional modified bellhousing. It has a few problems, I think wrong instruments, bodged up center instrument cluster, non-painted tank sides and door hinges, wrong color firewall, chrome rad. slats...just for starters. If he can get a starting bid of 31K, more power to him...I'm rooting for him! Like David is a nice car, but NOT concours. For that price, it should be close to perfect!
Steven Tobias

David, when I saw picture #46 I kept turning my head and thinking, that looks like the back to me...I guess to someone it did mean front.
Richard Taylor TD3983

Don't forget the incorrect threshold plates.
James Neel

That car may be a lot of things but " The way it left the factory" ain't one of em. It's not a Datsun tranny and its not a TD tranny. May still be just a 4 speed. Who knows?

Door handles look "strange" to anybody but me?
Oops ...think I should have said #45.
I guess it is the "front" if your a driveshaft or a rear end. (I didn't know they could read.)

Maybe it's just me ...but when I see something like this I start wondering just "how much" of it is reproduction parts. You can get a ton of $ in one of these cars "shopping the catalog", but at some point (to my taste anyhow) it starts to lose the patina of a 60 year old car. I think most of us have a few pieces like that, (I know I do) ...I like my old parts better though...flaws and all.
David Sheward

I sent the seller a e mail outlining some of the faults, maybe I will hear back. Who knows.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

According to the production record it was produced in April 1951.
Matt Davis

Even then, it would have had chronometric inst. Anyone notice the chrome grille also.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Hahaha...well, the speedometer has travelled 7,652 miles....but not in that least if it is a 1950/1...??
They are not the stock instruments thats for sure.
And putting the turn signal dash light in a non stock position sort of lowers the appeal....
I'm not sure what the switches/lights along the bottom right are?
Built 4th of April 1951 ...(registered as a '50?)
Thats not how my cable comes out of the transmission...certainly not a TD one....
Never cared for the all chrome tank side covers....

Not much of an accurate restoration.....
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

It's hard to know where to begin but I'll give it a try.
One year ago I bought Möbius from this company. I did not go out to St. Louis to inspect the car but relied on the beautiful pictures they posted and what the salesman told me. Shame on me. A big mistake. They lied. The car was in terrible shape. The pictures looked great but there was no mention of at least two major accidents. Bent frame, lots of bondo, etc. The wiring was a shambles. Wires hanging loose under the dash. Most instruments didn't work. The brakes were almost nonexistent. On a previous post I listed about 100 things I did in just the first 6 months. The last six months have doubled that. Now don't get me wrong. I love the car and enjoy working and tinkering with it. My point is that buyer beware. You are dealing with some very experienced used car salesmen. It was probably worth 10k less than I paid for it.
They had a bottom line of 32k and I ultimately paid 28k. They added a heater and turn signals before shipping. I replaced the piece of junk heater they sent and had to re-plumb the whole system. The turn signal housing was stripped and I replace that also.
You can see from the picture of the transmission mount and the reply to the inquiry that they are slick. Do you believe 7,652 miles?
Well no more time to go on I have to continue repairing the blown head gasket.
Mort 1950 TD Möbius

Here goes:
1. Right door has poor fit
2. Right running board too flat, poor fitment
3. Can't tell but the oil sump looks wrong. Can't see on the picture, but noticed no fins.
4. The headlight brackets are CHROMED!!!
5. Gas tank sides all chrome
6. Grill slats chrome, grill shell does not look right Repro? Can't tell in the pictures
7. Black firewall??
8 wrong coil
9. No lettering on the lightswitch
10. Early TD should have flat dish instruments.
11. Incorrect instrument panel.
12. Should not have a wooden dash...but I love it, it looks beautiful, perhaps a Craig Seabrook dash.
13. Wrong transmission.
14. No snap on the door panel for the side curtain.
15. Should have painted headlight buckets.

This car was obviously put together with several cars. I'd love to know what the engine number is. IT IS NOT A 30+K car, not even a decent show car.

I hope nobody falls for it, it may be a $12,000 or so car.
D. Sander

Mort -
Have you looked in your garage? I think he's selling it again.
I am not a TD originality expert, but this car is not right at all. And badly put together. 9ft unsupported fuel pipe, interior panels not touching the car behind the doors. Rad shell and slats out of a cereal box. Union Jack-off badge from some 80's druggie impressionist repro place. RF tire looks like it did 50,000 miles on Granny's VW bug. And the friggin' "OEM" gearbox mount is clearly in backwards. Glad we got all those shots of the MotoMeter.

Guy's name should leave out the "m", but I think he is cousin to Warshawski, Chicago.

Dollar for dollar, I'd rather have the one with the Studebaker power unit, an honest survivor.

FR Millmore

Are my eyes deceiving me, or is that a wooden rear tyranny mount?
My way of looking at it is, their looking for a naive sucker with deep pockets. JMHO. PJ
P Jennings

I am always suprised when the underside of a "complete restoration" is rattle-can sprayed flat black. I believe photo 45 shows parts of the front suspension that in a real restoration would not be that way. I also enjoyed seeing the back of a "transmission mount" that is labelled "front" as well as the liberal use of chrome. hey---"different strokes for different folks--and so on and so on"-------off to the British Invasion in Stowe Vermont---will report in later

I think this "restored" car is mostly a collection of various salvaged parts and whatever was laying around the garage. David Sander is generous.
Jim Merz

The more I look at the grill the more I wonder....does anybody know if you can actually fit a grill from a kit car (vw) on a TD?
I'm not a violent person, but if somebody did that to me for $34k I would be opening a whole case of "WA" on them.
just sayin'
David Sheward

While it is definitely not concours, guys, it is a very nice car (from the pictures)....
IMHO, no way you could buy this car anywhere for $12K !
If you can find one this good for that money, I'll buy it, , and give you a $1000 finder fee.....
From what I am seeing, I would say this is a $21-$24K car.
I'm in no way defending the seller...I know nothing about them...I do know that parts for these cars, whether repro or original, are expensive, and you can easily get $15K in just parts, without even trying....
I know of restorers that have put more than $30K in new parts, not including thousands of hours of time, or the cost of the subject car.
I do not think he will get his asking price, but it costs nothing for him to try.
E.B. Wesson

There is a lot wrong with this car, there is a lot the pictures are not telling. If the rest of the car is as bad as the pictures suggest it may be, then $12k may be a very generous offer. I would have to see the car to determine the value. I suspect the wood may be poor, and it may not have the original engine. The pictures do show it does not have the right transmission, instruments, headlights, headlight brackets, dashboard grill shell and grill slats.
The most worring thing is the sellers blatant lying about the originality and authenticity of the car. That alone would tell me to run, regardless of price.
D. Sander

I just went back and looked at the listing again. If it is a 50 TD than it has the wrong engine, the engine in that car is a late TD engine.
D. Sander

Trans mount looks like the piece pictured in the Moss catalgue with their 5 speed conversion kit. It clamps round the crossmember and extends rearward to accomodate the longer Sierra trans.
Yes Dave, the kit car grille shells I have come across are nearly identical to the originals in most all ways. Best way to distinguish one is the crank hole - the hole in the repop is higher by a substantial amount.
Probably a car built only to sell to a unknowing soul. Have had several vehicles thru the shop in the last few years which were obviously thrown together as fodder for the auctions. Most look pretty good to a casual observer-quite a different story when you look under the dash or put them up on lift. As always--buyer beware. Dan
Dan Craig

The guy does not reply to e mails about this car either. I would really look hard at this one if I were in the market, especially at the price listed.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Check out picture #43, look at the metal on the quarter panel, it is not folded over the upright piece, it just ends.
As I stated earlier, the description does not even come close to this car, which is what really scares me. The wrong engine, transmission, instruments, headlights,grill, the black firewall, the poor work on the quarter panel, and the poor fitting right door all tell me this car has some nasty surprises lurking under the paint.
It would be one thing if the description matched the car,but it doesn't.
D. Sander

David, some of the early td's had chromed headlamps, mine had them and they have the king of the road emblem on them. They were original to my car. I had to replace them during the restoration but my originals are with another club member who is going to restore them someday.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Tom, you are right. The very early TDs did have chrome headlights, then they went to painted shells with chrome rings, then back to all chrome without the king of the road emblem on late 53 TDs. I think this car is late enough to have the painted shells but I could well be wrong on that.
D. Sander

Just to add to the above, the fender lights do not have the correct lenses, the correct ones should be the ones with a chrome trim.
Brian Smith (1950 TD3376)

I've got a Ford Sierra 5 speed in my MGA and that mount looks just like the one that I have right down to the "FRONT" lettering. What I can see of the transmission also looks like the one in my A.
Dave Ahrendt

Boy, would I hate to have you guys inspecting my car!

I fully agree with the comments that a car at this price and description should not have the "faults" this car has and that radiator grille is awful, but it does have a lot of "correct" pieces, too. On how many of your cars has the correct airfilter gone missing?

There are a lot of people that would consider a 5-speed a bonus, the seller probably didn't even try to select the fifth speed!
Those tripod Lucas PL700 headlights, extra foglamps, winddeflectors on the 'screen, the Motometer, windscreen extensions the walnut dashboard, leather opholstery and 5-speed conversions don't come cheap, so apparently a previous owner did spend money on the car.

Just imagine that it is your car, sold by your family after you passed away; you be turning octagons in your grave!
Willem vd Veer

Willem, I agree that there are a lot of good things about the car, but one should not advertise or say that it is hard to find anything wrong with the car when there are a lot of things not original. My car has a wooden dash, MGA disc brakes and a 4:1 rear end with some other little things I have done to dress it up. That given, I dont make any pretense that everything is "original" or that it has no flaws. I see he has not gotten any bids on this thing either.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

When I die & my family sells my TF I would hope they base the ad on documentation collected for it.

If they decided to include a phrase like "one would be hard pressed to find an imperfection" (as done here) well...they had better expect someone to do just that! It did not take long for members of this board to point out over 15 "imperfections".

When one attempts to sell something at (at least) twice the fair market value they had better be prepaired to back up all claims with some solid documentation.
At a "buy in now" price of $34k I don't think that is an unrealistic expectation.

Again, IMHO, When fee-bay tightened up their security ("for protection of their users"?) they opened the door wide for those sellers looking to take advantage of the unknowing. One can only hope this BBS serves to at least inform some perspective buyers lucky enough to have found it.
David Sheward

Tom Maine (TD8105)

I liked the "old" ebay way over the "new" feebay.
Remember when you could contact a bidder?
Several times back then I would "pass" on bidding because I would see someone from this board with a bid on the item.
Years ago there was some smuck selling the $12 SU carb tunning kits for $120. He got real mad at me when I coppied all his bidders with a link to Moss site.
Now you go on there and find pages and pages of people pasting pic's from the Harbor Freight website (even copy & paste the description) and tripple the price, cars "for sale" that have been copied from dealers websites in other states.
Too many scammers for me.
David Sheward

I would start by saying this car is not a bad TD. Is it a $31,000+ car. No. Is the seller not being honest, YES.

This is not an 1950 MG. I can see a price in the $20,000 if it were original and just been restored. Here is my list.

The restorer used chrome in many places. Grill, Side panels, Bolts on the fuel tank,license plate tube, Headlight bars (headlights were chrome but not the bar).

Moss MG door thresholds instead of plain thresholds.

Gauges are incorrect. Per Clausager (not always correct) The Dish speedo came in at TD 10751. Combined oil pressure/temp at TD 13914

Modified Oil filter introduced TD14224.

High beam warning light TD 17548

Don't know when turn signals were added. But my 1950 (4139) did not have them. Plugged the center turn signal hole and added another hole to the indicator light area.

Added switch where accessory plugs should be.

Wrong Transmission.

Brass door hinges.

Plastic marker light lenses.

Wrong Coil

Overflow pipe incorrectly routed

Black Firewall

Unpainted nuts on firewall

Factory valve cover, but aluminum tappet cover.

Later generator, not 1950.

Brass ID plates, not nickle.

Poor work on little things like cutting the rubber grommets where the temp line goes through the firewall

Looks of the suspension do not indicate it was stripped or there is a lot of gunk on it.

So, here are why this is not a $31,000 car. Saying all this. This is still a nice TD. Nicer than mine in looks. It is a buyer beware world. But it would be appropriate for the owner to disclose the obvious such as the transmission is not original.

I bet the engine is not also, based on what I am seeing.

Bruce Cunha

There's a lot wrong with the car relative to what is represented as a "masterpiece," and one of the best that the seller has seen in his 58 years of selling English sporting machines.

A gaping hole in his presentation is that it claims to be a single owner, one collector car. If it has indeed gone through a full "frame off" restoration one would expect some pretty detailed documentation of the restoration.

If it's a single owner, one collector car the provenance would also be available. That kind of provenance and documentation of the restoration would add to the value of the car.

As several have said above, it's still a nice TD. It isn't an original masterpiece, and it isn't worth anywhere near the $ 34,000 buy it now price. Somewhere in the $ 15-17,000 range seems more appropriate - if the wood is in good shape.

Having bought my TD recently after a fairly comprehensive search, this one would not have made my short list. Too many "buts."


Bobby Galvez

Willem, when I initially sent the inquiry about the transmission, I considered it to be a plus if the car had a five speed and was surprised when the seller responded with such a perturbed reply.
I think it all boils down to the fact that the car is not as it left the factory and someone may buy it thinking they have a totally original car when they do not, I wouldn't have known any better about 5 years ago.
When I am finished with my car it will not be totally original but I don't plan on showing it or selling it.
Richard Taylor TD3983

The biggest alarm to me is the "one owner, one collector, original before restoration" deal. Someone is either mis-informed or dishonest. If the car # is indeed correct on the plates, the engine is a much later replacement (horizontal oil filter). That said, some early blocks were converted over to the later type- not hard to do, or the original motor blew up. Funny no pictures of the engine ID tag. Definitely the wrong instruments, later replacement dipper/horn button, TF choke knob,and the three warning lights look horrible. That said, a lot looks correct. Biggest uglies: chrome headlight brackets, flat right running board, plastic sidelight lenses, chrome tank ends, right door fit, and the chrome grill slats. Fix that, and it would be a pretty nice looking car. Maybe worth 12K as it is, 14 tops if mechanical/wood perfect. George
George Butz

Anybody besides me wondering how he held the side curtains in place without the bracket fixings on the doors ?

No responses from the seller on this thing regarding my questions on the car. That Figures.....
PS good catch on the window holders.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Did you all notice the piping is black and it should be the color of the car. I know I spelled color wrong, but I am not English.
Louis Levin

Still no bids, less than a day to go.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Well, the auction has ended with 0 bids. I think it will probably show up again...
D. Sander

Bravo! I think these threads perform a great service to the Marque. The more we can move the hobby into the hands of honest, helpful enthusiasts and away from sketchy dealers the better.
Steve James

I continue to be stumped by the level of knowledge and passion on this forum. You guys astound me with the level of detailed observation.



Dave Moore

Re TD 7016

I think Mort in NJ is on the right track. It looks to me like a big deception!

Dave:- you missed the (tacky in my opinion) contrasting body piping and the un-painted door hinges. In fact, I find the entire car too tacky for my liking. Certainly not worth $38 big ones. More likely in the low twenties.

Dave, finned sumps were standard only starting with the TD2.

That gearbox is indeed weird. Pic 7 shows the gear lever too far forward, and it may be deliberately 'Photoshopped" as it is quite dark. Also, I'm unsure of the bellhousing.

I hope I don't read an entry by somone who has been taken in! The whole thing has a bad smell about it.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A Clark

This thread was discussed between 16/09/2011 and 24/09/2011

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