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MG TD TF 1500 - Alternate 5 speed conversion

I was reading an unrelated story about various engine and transmission conversions and I came upon these guys. I found their web-site but they made no mention of T series MGs so I sent them an inquiry. They responded with the following:


JE Carroll

JE,

This conversion kit has been around a for a long time. It uses the Toyota T50 gearbox made, like so many, by Aisin. The T50 was found on the Supra and similar rear wheel drive Toyotas.

If you read their description, the issue is whether you want a direct shift (15" like our YA and YTs) or a remote shift (19") like our TC/TD/TF, etc. The choice of the Datsun and Ford type 9 provide the remote gear change which IMHO, is more desirable. With the direct gear change, one has often to cut it down to fit under the dash and sometimes it becomes impractically short.

Aisin makes several small adaptable 5 and 6-speed gearboxes that with ingenuity, could be adapted to our T-Series engines. These incluse the gearboxes for the Suzuki Grand Vitara and the Miata. Note however that with the Grand Vitara, the 5-speed is attached to the side of the transfer case, and it will take a machine shop to adapt that gearbox and cover up the hole.

For a smattering of 5 & 6-speed Aisin gearboxes, have a look at http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html. Note that many of these are for GM including Cadillac and others.

I have even seen a Borg Warner T5 (Chev. Mustang, etc) adapted to a T-Series - not a bad choice in my opinion, but grossly oversized.

Again, I refer to Dellow’s description at the bottom of the page “ ... when available”. These same words now apply to the sources of the remote-change 5-speed gearboxes that with adapters, will fit our cars. Skyhook long ago ran out of Datsun gearboxes, and I can only wonder how long it will take Hi-Gear to run out of the Ford Type 9 which they are presently sourcing in Germany.

Whilst visiting my daughter in Durango, Mexico a few years ago, I took an afternoon and cruised around the countryside and found 4 of 5 abandoned Datsun Cherrys and similar, with 5-speeds, just rusting in the fields.

I’m waiting to win the Power Ball so I can go to Aisin and ask them to make a gearbox uniquely for the T.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

As Gordon has mentioned about the availablilty of Datsun 5 speeds in Mexico,,, Don't we have any T Type members/owners living near the Mexico border??? I guess there might be some sort of paperwork that must be done to get the trannies back into the States,,, does any one have any idea of the process that would be involved ??? I'm sure that it would be suspect that they would be filled with drugs..

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

While I often see discussions of the Datsun and T9 conversions, I haven't seen discussion of the Toyota conversion and was unaware of it.

I owned both a Celica and a Supra. I believe they had a W50 and W58 respectively - nice transmissions.

To check my memory I just did a quick search and came up with this interesting link. There are quite a few shifter positions, check out the late Supra, perhaps it's closer to correct.

http://www.retrotech.co.nz/Tech/Toyota-boxes.php

With the Datsuns hiding out in Mexico and the T9s in Germany, perhaps the more common Toyota might bear a second look.

What I'm wondering is how they would fit and bolt up at the rear. The paper I got from down under didn't mention if they fit with no modification to the tunnel or frame.
JE Carroll

In the US, T50 came in Corolla & Corona. Apparently the upside downs got them in Celicas, but all the Celica I've seen here had W50. Supras are high powered Celicas and came with various W5* boxes. The T boxes are slim, and the W are progressively fatter (especially at the rear end) as numbers go up. Even the T boxes were used behind V8s with success, and the W are much stronger, bigger, heavier, serious overkill for a T series MG; would be hard to fit.

The T box RWD Corollas ended at the same time as the Datsun 310 (1982), and are about as hard to find. Part that kills me is that when I was hauling scrap in the 80s, I saw piles of these things sitting all over the country, heading for meltdown; I was intrigued but didn't know what was what, and had no way or time to find out.

Suzuki Samurai would probably be good, but I think they are getting scarce. Samurai uses a separate transfer case driven by a shaft from the gearbox, so the gbx itself is usable. Suzuki/GM Tracker is bigger and bulkier. I haven't seen a 2wd one, but the 4wd transfer case just bolts on the end, so I expect a Tracker box could be utilized with a bit of work.

FRM
FR Millmore

Gordon, Steve, FR:

I was at a car show last summer and there was a '32 roadster so nicely detailed that he had a mirror showing the undercarriage. I noticed the transmission and commented "That's no Muncie". The owner laughed and let me know it was a Supra transmission. I asked him if it was strong enough and he replied that he'd been unable to break it! He wanted an overdrive to complement his 4.56 gears and said that he had a .75 5th. I don't know if that was an aftermarket or Toyota gear set.

If it couldn't be broken with a very built small block then it's certainly overkill for a T.

Is the Suzuki bolt pattern the same as a Toyota?

Jim
JE Carroll

JEC-
"I don't know if that was an aftermarket or Toyota gear set."
Toyota has a bunch of ratios in various versions of these. That's about right for some.

"If it couldn't be broken with a very built small block then it's certainly overkill for a T."
the Retrotech link gives pretty conservative capacity numbers judging by other reports I've read, but of course it depends on how brutal the driver.
Reports are that the W55 up boxes are good for in excess of 700hp in racing conditions.

"Is the Suzuki bolt pattern the same as a Toyota?"
Extremely unlikely.
Each Toyota box has its own pattern, and some have more than one. And which Suzuki ? I think the Suzuki Swift used the Samurai based box, Not a common car here, likely more so nearer Japan, ie Oz. There are websites around with Swift converted Spridgets, with pics. Dellow probably have info on this, and could machine their bellhousing to suit anything you want. Not cheap with shipping though!

FRM
FR Millmore

Jim

If you had searched the archives you would have come across a number of mentions of Dellow and the Toyota 5 speed box conversion.

Structural modifications include a new rear engine/ gearbox mount setup, a new tailshaft, modifing floor boards and gearbox cover to fit over the Toyota gearbox (which is wider than the original).

As I haven't driven the car as yet, I am not sure if the gearbox lever shaft will need modifing or not.

The attached photo shows my conversion.

Stuart

Stuart Duncan

Stuart,

Your pic is worth a 1000 words. In North America, virtually all TDs and TFs are LHD.

Your pic shows the RHD set-up. I'm wondering how close the pedal box comes to the left side of the gearbox on LHD conversions?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Gordon-
T50 is quite slim, and the same width from center on both sides. You can see by the flywheel housing how so.

FRM
FR Millmore

Stuart,

Ditto Gordon's comments. I hadn't thought to search the archives as I just stumbled upon Dellow and had not seen any recent discussion except the T9 and Datsun 210.

I've only just begun assembling the project I bought but the invoices indicate the transmission was rebuilt including new cluster, 1st and reverse, syncros, bearings, etc. I suppose my best course of action is to see if the original is suited to my driving and leave the possible conversion to later.

How does the stick position measure compared to the stock transmission? If it's too far forward are different shifters available for the T50 transmission as are available for the W series?

Jim
JE Carroll

Jim
As I haven't driven the TD as yet, I am unable to advise on position of stick, however others who have done the conversion have bent the stick to fit.

See Chris's photos at http://www.cmemories.com.au/MGTDimages.htm

In modifying my rear gearbox/engine mount, I have made it such that I can bolt (the original section I cut out) back in and use the original TD gearbox and tailshaft.

Concerning modifications to gearbox cover. The Toyota box is square and an extra 1" wider on both sides and the cover needs to be wider at the floorboards.

Stuart
Stuart Duncan

This thread was discussed between 01/05/2012 and 06/05/2012

MG TD TF 1500 index

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