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MG TD TF 1500 - Antifreeze question

My understanding of the need to replace antifreeze is that the glycols do not deteriorate, but the corrosion inhibitors do, hence the antifreeze must be replaced at about two year intervals to keep the corrosion down, not because it will not protect against cold temperatures.

I noticed recently that Prestone are selling an extended life (five year) antifreeze that they claim can be mixed with any other antifreeze of any color and that is good for all cars. Does anyone have any experience/opinions on the effectiveness of this extended life antifreeze and also on the idea of adding corrosion inhibitors (also sold by Prestone) to antifreeze to avoid having to replace it?
Ron Coates

The archives have a number of comments about extended life antifreeze. The additives are suggested to attack the lead that was part of the solder amalgam used in fabricating radiators from this period. For this reason it's best to avoid extended life antifreeze.

Larry
Larry Shoer

Ron,

Last year, I switched to Redline Water-Wetter. What a pleasant surprise. Running temp was lowered a full 15°, and under hard running (climbing Mt. Washington, for instance) for the first time, it never boiled over.

However for winter, I had to forsake this product for regular antifreeze in a 50% solution while it is stored.

I used regular ethylene glycol from the auto parts store and not the special stuff for aluminium engines, as Larry has pointed out.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

I decided to ask Prestone about the suitability of their new antifreeze. I told them I had a 1954 MG and a 1976 Datsun 280Z and was concerned about the materials used in the radiators, adding that the MG was constructed using lead solder amalgam. Here is a shortened version of their reply (I removed the advertizing):

" Thank you for your inquiry and your interest in our products. To

> answer your question, Prestone All Makes All Models Extended Life
> 5/150 Antifreeze Coolant is safe to use in both your Datsun and MG
and

> will offer excellent cooling system protection. Prestone All Makes
All

> Models Extended Life Antifreeze Coolant is phosphate, silicate, and
> borate free. This coolant uses a special chemistry and technology
that

> extends the life of the corrosion inhibitor package so that it lasts
> up to five years or 150,000 miles (whichever comes first), and is
safe

> for all cars and light trucks (old or new)".

I am thinking of using it in both my MG and Datsun. Any other comments?
>
Ron Coates

I understand that the key to extended life antifreeze is to keep it completely topped off to prolong the service life.

dave
Dave Braun

Here is a link which discusses the use of extended life coolant. The article is from Car and Driver.

"Top it up with green? Or orange? Which antifreeze?"
BY PATRICK BEDARD
June 2002

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=2334

"The promise of OAT [orange] is long-life corrosion protection, on the order of six years/ 100,000 miles for the initial fill instead of the two years/50,000 miles that was typical with the old green stuff. The GM Dex-Cool formula works fine in systems designed for it. But it eats old-style radiators with lead solder, and the inhibitors work too slowly to protect against the sort of corrosion that happens so fast it actually erodes metalfor example, the cavitation likely in the imperfectly designed water pumps of older cars."

"Cars born with green coolant shouldn't be changed to orange."

Larry
Larry Shoer

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

George Butz

Also http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/antifreeze-questions.htm
George Butz

Don't know about others, but If I ever went 5 years without taking my radiator out it would be a miricle. I believe I have changed the fluid about 4 times in the last couple of years. I am not much on reusing antifreeze when I drain the radiator.
Bruce Cunha

Frankly, with the decked cylinder head and block, I'm looking forward to seeing coolent without a slick of dirty oil floating on top!

(once I actually get my car on the road, that is)

dave
Dave Braun

I tend to look at the TD a lot different then the daily driver... $15.00 for new antifreeze doesn't seem so much to change every spring (or more). After one of my rad works last summer i put in water only and noticed rust real quick... Got the antifreeze/coolant back in and flushed a few times...
Its the same with the other fluids...will change all again this spring regardless of the milage (its time for most anyway). Seems the least I can do for the old girl....for less then $50.00 you can do the whole thing...cheaper then a date!!!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

It's not the cost, but the disposal that is the big advantage for long life antifreeze for me.
Ron Coates

Antifreeze can be recycled. At our town recycling center antifreeze is collected at no charge. You might try contacting your local recycling centers and some garages to see if you can find someone who will take your used antifreeze.

The same is true of motor oil. A number of the independent garages in our area (Massachusetts) have installed waste oil heaters in their service bays. They are more than happy to take waste oil, which they burn and which minimizes the amount of heating oil they have to buy during the winter.

Larry
Larry Shoer

Ron
I like Gordon change every spring. I have a little ritual where I change all the fluids, brake fluid, anti- freeze, oil and oil filter as a right of spring. I live in Virginia and they have recycling laws that say if you sell oil, you have to provide recycling of the used motor oil and filter. Now to get them to recycle the anti-freeze, I have a couple gallons of the used anti-freeze stored in the garage. The county has a recycling place at the dump that accepts the used anti-freeze. Any way, the cost of this is well under $50.00 and I check the condition of each fluid so I know what is going on in my engine, brake system, and cooling system. Just my thoughts, John
John Hambleton

I follow pretty much the same ritual as John Hambleton. Every spring, I change all the fluids including brake fluid (due to the fact that it is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture). For years, I've used "Sierra" brand anti-freeze at about a 60/40 ratio of water/anti-freeze with the addition of Water Wetter. Even with the blower on the car, I've not had an overheating problem.

The reason for using Sierra (there are other brands too) is environmental. It is a propylene glycol (PG)rather than ethylene glycol (EG) based product and is much safer for animals, etc. in case of a spill or boil-over. Dogs and other domestic animals are attracted to anti-freeze and it kills them if they drink it. I'm not sure about disposal as compared to EG based products, but we have a really good hazardous waste program here in Santa Barbara.
Craig Cody

Thanks Craig.

I was suprised at how little antifreeze it takes to kill a pet:

From http://www.thepetprofessor.com/articles/article.aspx?id=178

"It takes only about 1/2 teaspoon per pound for a dog to get a toxic dose of ethylene glycol, the active ingredient in antifreeze, and less for a cat. Although the poison affects both the animal's neurological and kidney function, the most severe damage usually involves the kidneys.

"Clinical signs in affected animals include depression, incoordination, vomiting, and seizures. The best way to combat antifreeze poisoning is by preventing the animal from having the opportunity to drink the poison. Keep all containers tightly closed when not in use and clean up spills immediately. It should be noted that this toxin affects people as well as pets and that small children are also at risk for ethylene glycol poisoning.

"There is currently a new product on the market (one trade name is Sierra) which claims to be safer than other brands of antifreeze. This product contains propylene glycol as its active ingredient. If ingested, it can still cause the nervous system injury resulting in incoordination and possibly seizures but does not cause the more frequently fatal kidney damage. It is clear using such a product would pose less of a health hazard. The best advice remains, however, to always use any potentially toxic product carefully to prevent accidental poisoning in the first place."

dave
Dave Braun

This thread was discussed between 18/03/2006 and 29/03/2006

MG TD TF 1500 index

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