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MG TD TF 1500 - Bars behind TF seats - what for?

What exactly are the bars behind TF seats used for and how do they work? I have the bars from Moss, but not sure where best to place them on the backs for the seats. Can someone let me know and perhaps include a picture? Were they stock on new cars or an option? Were they always painted to match the interior color? When you screw them on, should the screws go into both pieces of wood on the seat backs (i.e., how long should the screws be)?

As always, thanks for any information.

Tom
TM Going

Is this the bar you mean?

As far as I'm aware they're just handles for lifting the seats so you can get into the box behind the seats. They've been on every TF I've seen so I've assumed they're a standard fitting.

I painted mine to match the colour of the seat which happens to be the same colour as the centre dash and hood frame (bronze) which is what they were when I got the car. I used 1" chrome screws.

AJ




A R Jones

Yes, that is the bar I am talking about. What you write makes sense. I thought I have read that they have someting to do with the tonneau cover, but I could not figure out how that might be the case. Thanks.
TM Going

They are there to tuck the front half of the tonneau cover into so it stays secure while driving in the half tonneau position. They were originally painted to match the interior.
Joe Buchmiller

In the TD they are used to secure the tonneau cover to keep it from catching in the wind with straps that go around the bar. I also use it as a blanket bar for chilly day rides.
James Neel TD28423

I believe the original tonneaus had only a half cover and had straps that went over the bars to secure it. The original guys can tell us.
LaVerne

Tom,

My brother has a Rolls-Royce with a bar behind the seats, and I've never had to ask him what its for.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

I studied the TF in Gery Goguen's MG Museum, some years ago and the paint on the bars matched the hood frame, not the color of seats.
David Werblow

LaVerne is spot on. The original tonneaus that came with both the TD and TF only covered the area behind the seats. There were a couple of elastic straps on the tonneau, that went over the bar and were fastened lower down to the back of the seats. The bars on the TD and TF were different, but served the same purpose.

George
George Raham [TD4224]

Attached a pic of my original seats and just repainted tonneau bars. All the original TF's that I have come across have had bars that matched the upholstery.

Cheers,
Matthew.


Matthew Magilton

I alway thought paint on the bars matched the hood frame...to be "correct".
Mine doesn't ...it matches my hood, hood frame, and seats. (Black) They were in the car when purchased, not installed, and painted the "tan-correct" hood frame color. Although I painted & installed then, I have never had much luck stuffing my (full) tonneau cover behind them.
David Sheward

Matthew,

In your picture, there is a snap below the bar. What is that for? Another question if I might - it seems that the seat backs on my TF are made of 2 pieces of wood. They seem to be separating at the sides and there is a gap of about 1 inch. How were the 2 pieces of wood originally held together so there is no separation, and can I use wood screws (going in frm the back) to hold them together?

Again, thanks all.
TM Going

Quote: Tom,

My brother has a Rolls-Royce with a bar behind the seats, and I've never had to ask him what its for.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

End Quote

I liked this answer the best. LOL
Dave Braun

Tom: The ends of the four elastic straps on the factory issue half tonneau had tags fitted with lift-the-dot snaps which attached to the pegs you see in the photo.

David: I have not come across any bars with the hood frame colour, just the biscuit upholstery colour such as the unrestored example in the photograph.

Matthew.


Matthew Magilton

Matthew,

I love the patina on your seats!

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Gordon, I must admit that your comment about the bar behind the seats went right over my head at first. Must have made to many visits to the "bar behind the seats". Larry
Larry Brown

I bought the half tonneau from Moss and it has those elastic straps. I have not figured out where they snap, hoever. I have a book that said the bars were painted the tan color, but then I found green ones at a buddies house that match my uphostery. I'll just leave the things tan at this point, since I went to a lot of trouble to paint them to match the hood frame..
MW Davis

Hi All,

I agree with with Matt.Magilton,in that all
original TF cars I have seen have the seat back bar the same colour as the upholstery.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

I have a second TF that had never been restored. It had red seats and the bars were painted hood frame color (tan). Barn find.and parked since 1960, now being restored


On my other TF 1500, it had been restored and they chrome plated the bars.
Don Harmer

You gotta love these cars! (Any "2" made the same? LOL)
My car was built Oct 1954, (red w/red interior according to BMHT cert.)
When purcahased it had black seats,hood,hood frame, & red dash.
Obviously the "black", (as well as Ivory paint) had been changed at some point in her life.
In the boot were the two seat back rails that apeared to have never been painted, (or installed). They were the "tanish-pink" as hood frames.
Same as what Don found.
Not "arrguing the point" by any means ...just reporting what I "found".
Taken with a gain of sand in as much as I also have a 2 bow hood frame. (something that "should not" be on a TF!)
David Sheward

Rob and Matthew

Once again we seem to have some differences between the TFs sent to Austrailia and to the US.

Most of the TFs I have seen that haven't had much restoration seem to have the frame color bars. Others have been obviously repainted or chromed. They do look a lot better chromed after a bit of use!

Or it could be as happened with other details, that it was just random picking of parts out of a bin.

Mystery!
Don Harmer

David S,

"They were the 'tanish-pink' as hood frames".

The biscuit interior colour of tonneau bars for a TF was similar to the colour of the hood frames but not the same!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

I doubt if the person assembling the seats would have known if they were going in a RHD or LHD car and I can think of no reason for a market specific colour. I wonder if messers Clark, Stafford and Barter could please advise on the colours on their very original North American cars?

Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Totally argee with Rob on "biscuit" being different than hood frame tan! 'Tanish-pink' was best description I could come up with.

The following conversation took -place in Abingdon (sometime in 1953/54) :
"Nigel, my paint sprayer malfunctioned again, could you shoot these tonneau rails when you get done with those hood frames?"
LOL
David Sheward

David S,

You make an important point, relating also to all sorts of 'originality' aspects of our cars. I have long suspected that many minor variations occured at the factory, that no purchaser in the 1950s would have been aware of, or cared less about. They would have just been pleased that their longstanding order had come through at last, and enjoyed driving their new car!

I'm keen on originality aspects, but we need to remind ourselves from time to time of the totally diferent post-war world our cars were made in.

Cheers,

John

PS, I wonder what became of Nigel?
J C Mitchell

John,

He came to the US to work on the Edsel. Never heard from again after its demise.

Regards,
Jim
James Neel TD28423

John,
You took my post as intended.
Years ago I fell in-touch with a fellow that had worked in Abingdon, (actually when my TF was built) through an ebay auction. From what started as a horrid experance (thank you paypal) for both of us, we became good friends and corasponded for some time.

He was amussed by some of the "originality aspects" discussed on this board. Had some wonderfull stories of a factory "operating in distress", and some of the material shortages that occured on the production line. One that sticks in my mind was that of "bolt size". Seems they ran out of body fastening bolts one day and "borrowed" some from a nearby tractor maker. As a result for a while our cars came down the line with different ones on the left side, than on the right side! Also stories of cars being jerked off the line and re-painted a different colour to fill an order. Many stories, but it all came down to workers that did "what it took" to keep the line moving and stay employed in what were hard times for this factory.

Saddly he passed before we could meet and I miss him dearly. Remember him offten as I have many items he had found for me over the years and sent my way. He would find something he thought "might be of intrest" and just send it to me with no notice with a little note telling me what he paid for it. I would normallly send a little more than he asked because he was an excellent shopper! (example : NOS Raydot hunting lamp in box / $35.00!)
David Sheward

Gentlemen,

I used to attend concourse shows with Auburn Boattail Speedsters, where there was always one or more judges who totally destroyed the score of a competetor's car because "this feature was not original when it left the factory". I didn't own any of the cars back then, but was employed by an owner/restorer who had several. It became apparent that this nit picking would take all of the fun out of these type of car shows for me.

Dave Sheward's post concerning the changes made to MGT's on the manufacturing line, in order to keep the line going, got me to thinking. One would wonder how many times T's have been downgraded in competition because of changes on the line during production. It must be very frustrating for some owners who frequently show their cars in concourse events.

Gene
P Burgess

Hi Tom,

I have the car from Gery in my garage :-) So I will help you with a Photos. The picture with the bar at the dash shows the colour best. I cant say if the colour was the same on the Hood frame, since it has been resprayed. Bars are fixed with four 1 1/4" by 3/16" screws (total length and diameter measured over the thread) I don't know if they are original, since they are cross head screws.

Ove



Ove Wiuff

Great photos Ove.
Here is a pic of original hood frame colour for comparison.
Seems to me that the factory was keen to not have contasting colours in the interiour. Hence the dash, underscuttle etc were all painted to match.

Matthew.


Matthew Magilton

Matt and Ove,

You are spot on with the colour difference
between the hood frames and the tonneau bars.

Ove,the screws are also right for an original interior fit for TFs.

Long live Concours d'Etat and Concours d'Elegance!We are fortunate in Australia to have knowlwdgeable Judges.

I would be interested to see a photo of the tonneau bars of Gordon Clark's TF which he has had from new.Of course,they may have been repainted by now?

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Reactivating this thread.

Getting a set of TF tonneau bars for my car.

Can somebody be so kind as to provide some measurements to allow me to locate them please.

A measurement from the bottom of the seat back to the bottom of the metal. If inner and outer are different please advise.
A measurement from top of seat to top of bar in the middle of the seat.

Thank you all.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

On mine the bars are about 1/4" below the seat beading and when the tonneau is tucked it is level with the top of the seat. Mind you when I bought the car it was 20 years old and may have been messed with.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Thanks Ray, appreciate the help.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Are there any photos out there of a TF tonneau bar in use (engaged), showing the tonneau fitted behind the bar with straps in place?
Tyler
C.T. Irwin

Peter,
I should have told you to google "The Original mgtf midget-Gallery". Every photo you need is there.
Ray
Ray Lee

Will do, I need to bookmark that.

Thanks,

Peter
P G Gilvarry

This thread was discussed between 09/01/2012 and 10/02/2020

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