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MG TD TF 1500 - Carb Overflow pipes
|Getting to the point of putting the carbs back on the TD (Butterflies are beginning with the thought of starting the new engine).|
Does someone have a diagram or picture of how the factory did placement of the overflow tubes? I just got a new set and don't want to bend them until I know how they went.
There are sketches in the workshop manual on pgs. B10-11 that should help.
Good luck with engine start!!
|Evan Ford - TD 27621|
|Bruce, just be careful bending the tubes. The tubes that I got from Moss had a tendency to fold and kink while bending. Use a tubing bender, and bend carefully and slowly, keeping the radius constant.|
The old tubes that I took off were much sturdier, and I could bend them by hand, without kinks and folded spots developing. I ended up cleaning up and rebending the old tubes, and reinstalling them.
|Bruce, I've heard a lot of confusing information regarding the routing of the tubes, caused by the workshop manual. I guess the rub is that the manual was drawn up while the cars were being developed and as a result some information is displayed incorrectly. For one thing, as hard as it is, they go THROUGH a 1/2 hole in the engine bearer plate and not simply over the plate. This requires a really obnoxious 'z' bend in the pipes. Here are some pictures of how I did it... although I'm sure some would have issues with my routing.|
I got one peice of advice before I started my engine after doing a final static timing check. "Make sure the hand crank is withdrawn" lol. Good luck.
|I thought I would add that you need to make sure that the appropriate scalloped washer is used between the overflow pipe and the top of the float chamber lid or the carbs won't vent properly and the overflow won't work. The carbs need to be able to displace air as the fuel level rises and falls. The previous owner of my car had solid washers, and I had problems.|
Also, if your car doesn't have the solid lid, removing the pin and filling the hole with devcon metal putty. This advice came to me from Burlen/SU, and I have done it. This will reduce evaporation, eliminate a fire hazard, and prevent disaster in the case of a fire or roll over accident. The later carbs had a solid lid, and they are available, but costly. A friend of mine lost his early Healey to an engine fire caused by this issue.
Also, might want to use Gross Jets instead of the standard needle valve.
Here's a quote from 'Your SU Companion' a great little booklet, which is a compilation of articles written by Donald Jackson for the Octagon club bulletin.[what this guy doesnt know about SU aint worth knowing]
"appeared just before the war and were fitted to cars where it was feared that flooding might spill neat petrol directly onto the red hot manifold. Unfortunately, it was later discovered that they caused more seriuos troubles than they were intended to cure - notably syphoning once a bit of flooding did occur, and it was common practice at SU to cut the pipes very short (say about 2-3 ins long) to prevent this. They were discontinued as a standard fitment about 1960 for this reason.
Make of this what you will.
|I can't argue with the siphoning reason, but the fact is the overflow tubes were continued at least on U.S.A. spec cars well into the 70's and when emission standards required vapor containment they were routed back to the petrol tank verses mother earth. Mine were also cut short by the P/O but will be replaced to try and eliminate the fire potential.|
|Dave; I have never seen a hole that large in any of several motors that I have rebuilt over the past 25 years. I have always used Moss # 372610 clamp and a 3/16W bolt and nut and run the two copper drains down behind the front engine plate.|
|I am fairly certain there is suppose to be a metal loop or holder clip bolted to the back side of the bearer plate, with the pipes passing straight down through this. I'll research this later. George|
|Bruce if this link works this is a photo showing the overflow pipe routing. They are generally routed down the inside of the backplate, not through a hole. The clip|
(clamp) mentioned is visible at the bottom of the photo.
|I just put this up http://www.ttalk.info/td_pipes.htm to show an example of a decent routing. I respectfully disagree with Dave B. about the pipes being routed through the bearer plate. The OEM clip holds them together on the plate. I think I have another set of photos that I'll try to add if I can find them.|
|I hope I have not started something with this one. But as usual, it is very interesting to see and read different thoughts on the subject.|
Dave. I was just thinking about what that hole in the engine plate was for. If not for the overflow pipes, what is it's purpose?
My original pipes were cut short My last set came down on the inside of the plate like Dallas and Bud. One got kinked while removing. (they are very easy to kink). My last set were routed to the outside of the air cleaner. Routing them close to the exhaust seemed to be tempting fait.
It would still look as though if the float stuck while the engine was running the the fuel would be blown back over the exhaust pipe. With Daves way, at least it is somewhat blocked by the engine plate.
Larry. I wondered about the thin dished washers. They are in place, but they always seemed not correct.
I do have the old pin style covers. May be I am just fortunate, but I have never had problems with the carps overflowing. I do like having the pins to check that the floats are working. I will give consideration to the information on sealing them.
|My TF 1500 and Jim Holcombe's "Original" 1500 have the overflow pipes thru the engine bearer plate (1/2" hole) to the front of the plate then thru the clip to the bottom of the plate. Thus the wind cannot bring the spray back to the manifold. |
This makes sense safety wise!!! Also plug up those tickler pins in the float bowl cover, an engine fire is not a pretty sight!!!
|The only picture in the shop manual showing the routing of the overflow pipes at the front of the engine show them going over the top of the bearer plate and down the front. This makes a lot more sense to me than being routed through the hole in the bearer plate where, if they are not positioned properly, they will wear through and leak at that point. As for the pipes syphoning fuel out of the bowls, that is not possible as there is an air gap between the top level of the fuel and the entrance to the overflow pipes. Unless the needle valves are not shutting off, the fuel level will dropbelow the level of the overflow pipes and stop flowing. There are overflow pipes on all of the carburetors clear up through the last MGBs, if they weren't emptied below the level of the engine, they were run into the charcoal canister. Cheers - Dave|
|To All --- Nobody has mentioned that maybe whether the pipes went thru the 1/2" hole or not depended on who assembled the engine, what day it was and what kind of beer they had for lunch.|
In my case I put small compression fittings on the banjo's at the top of the float bowl. Now I can disconnect the overflow pipes and remove the carbs without having those pipes trailing along. I know, I know, you can take the bolt out from thru the banjo and leave the pipes behind, but I think on assembly it is better to put the lids on while the carb is on the bench.
Just my 2 cents worth.
|R. K. (Bob) Jeffers|
|Well guys, a firestorm here beats a firestorm on our cars! lol, Very, very nice work of pipe routing btw Dallas. And Bud, you and David can disagree with me anytime, I respect your opinions more than you can imagine!|
My original pipes were cut short (20 years) and although I never had a fire, the fact that I would occassionally get drips on the starter made me pretty nervous at times.
I took my research from Tseries FAQ
(formerly asked questions) Version 1.0-a, September 2002
I offer the section I reviewed here, (it is a back and forth discussion, but you can follow it if you pay attention) you can take it or leave it as you see fit! Warmly, dave
TD carb overflows
Is there a clamp to hold the carb overflow tubes to the frame or do they simply "hang free"?
They tuck through the hole in the front engine bearer plate and then have a brass clamp that's held by the bolt alongside the timing cover.
There is a clip. Look in the Moss catalog MGT-23 on page 6, Item #69. It's mounted on the bearer plate. The tubes are bent as necessary to go through this clip.
They run from the carb bowls forward and down toward the forward engine mounting plate. After passing over it, they then bend to straight down, and are clamped my a little "M" shaped piece that has a bolt through the middle. If you see an empty hole in the plate, one that appears to accept about a 3/16" bolt (but it's the ww size, of course) that's the hole. Sorry, that is NOT correct. If that is what you found, someone had already changed it. The clamp is lower case "d" shaped, in brass and the pipes originally went THROUGH the front engine bearer plate.
No, there is a bolt that threads into the block outside and next to the timing cover (originally with a 3/16W head and near the "lump" that covers the tensioner) that both held the plate to the block and held the clamp. I probably have a couple of original clamps lying about. The hole for the pipes is @ 7/16 - 1/2 as I recall and the pipes have to make a real "Z" bend and it's a pain in the ass! ( vertically down, parallel to the rear of the plate, through the hole, and then down and parallel again, stopping just below the sump flange)
yes there is a clip. It should be located on the front side of the front engine plate/support that ends in the engine mounts. It is held in place by one of the timing chain cover bolts. They do not attach to the frame. Rather they are to be bent so as to arrive at the clip then down toward the road The path of the rear tube runs downward parallel to the sides of the float bowl, ( I ran mine off of the 7 o'clock position as you look downward at the top of the floats - rear)) then forward and downward at about 45 degree angle from the rear carb to the engine front plate/mount, through the clip, then downward toward the ground. The tube from the forward carb goes parallel the float bowl (Iran mine off the 2 o'clock position) and down to join the path of the rear tube the rest of the way. The clip is very similar to the kind used to hold electrical wiring flat against a surface. Moss sells them. Best to check out a good restoration manual for you model to see all this for yourself. The tubes tend to rattle together, so I added a plastic cable "zip" strip fastener to hold them tightly together where they join up. Hope this makes sense.
There is a clamp at the front engine mount plate for the tubes. The tube go through the hole and straight down.
sorry but I disagree with you on the routing of the carb overflow pipes on the TD. I always thought they passed OVER the front engine bearer plate, had a 90 degree bend down and were held by a single P ( or d ) clip which holds both pipes side by side and bolts to the 8.0 mm bolt holding the front bearer plate to the block on the outside of the timing cover. We agree on the clip. The TC pipes were similarily routed. For the TD, as a reference, check out page D-1 of the factory TD Workshop Manual, figure D-2 clearly shows the pipes routed on top of the front bearer plate and then down the front. For the TC, Refer to Instruction Manual for the MG midget ( Series TC ), page 43, illustration no. 18 also clearly shows the overflow pipes routed over the front bearer plate and then down the front. It is possible that other routings were used, but as a first reference, I think the official factory manuals are most correct.
I STILL do not agree. MY information is based on personal experience with the cars while working at the dealer (Auto Engineering in Lexington Mass.) in the very early 50s. ALL the cars were fitted as I've described. For those with more recent MG experience it is very easy to fall into the trap of believing the printed word - especially when it's the service manual!!!
For a clear example of the problem: If you look at the exploded diagram of the TD/TF transmission on page F4, you'll see that the 1/2 gear hub has continuous splines between the detents. That was the original intent and so drawn by the artist in 1949. Cost factors made the factory go to the simpler, cheaper, annular groove - which wore and caused gear "rock", noise, and rapid wear. When Al Moss showed me his first prototype repro hub in the early 70s while I was in his office, I commented about that and he protested that he "had it made from the production drawings". I showed him the difference (which I had asked about and researched at the factory in the late 60s) and he subsequently changed them to the original design. This makes first gear much stronger and longer lasting when the hub is changed during a rebuild, but the whole process illustrates how you cannot necessarily believe the words and drawings in the factory manuals.
Just to throw "a spanner in the works" we all used to cut these off at a point level with the bottom of the float chamber. Stopped syphoning you see!!.
OK, you trumped my ace!! Your experience is better than mine. I owned a 53 TD in 1958 but can certainly not remember any details on the overflow pipes. Anyway, I checked 12 TD/TF front bearer plates in my possession and they ALL had the hole that you say was used for the overflow pipes. I then checked 6 TC front bearer plates and NONE of them have the hole. So I guess your routing could be correct for the TD, but the TC had the pipes over the top. However, I checked with an original owner of a 53 TD about the routing of the carb overfl;ow pipes. The engine has never been out of the car, but the carbs have been off and he states FOR SURE the pipes went over the top on his TD. The hole is also present on his front bearer plate. So why did MG install the hole?? possibly to route the pipes through as you say, but it appears that at least some TDs were built with the pipes over the top. Also, of course the TC. Anyway, I think the original question on fastening the pipes has been answered.
|After David Braun's dissertation, I couldn't help but follow up on two other points. The purpose of the long pipes to keep overflow off the manifold is moot, as the overflow will come out of the holes surrounding the float tickler pins. I know that some have sealed these holes- this then leads to a possible siphon problem.|
I just kept mine stock and for looks. I still keep an eye out for sticking float valves, and keep a screwdriver handle nearby. 8>)
|The Tickler pins in the cover was an engineering goof!!!|
They defeat the purpose of the overflow pipes! If the fload bowl floods the fuel will come out of the lowest hole, the tickler pin hole if it's there, right down on the manifold. If the bowls get full enough to syphon, then that's what you want to happen to get rid of the excess fuel to stop flooding.
Safety rather than originality is paramount, if you flood, originality won't save you from the fire! If you are a fanatic, epoxy the pins in place to seal them, the judge won't check to see if they operate.
We have had three members burn up newly restored cars and one nearly so (sunk float) because of the tickler pin problem.
As is often the case, the Shop Manual tended to reuse drawings of previous models in the new model manual, thus it is not surprising that the TD/TF Manual used the picture of the TC engine overflow tube routing, after all the engines are the same(XPAG). This is one of several such goofs carried over (see the MGA Workshop manual, which has some TD Manual pictures, and the MGB one).
|Dave B, your pipes sure look pretty! In fact, however they are routed, they look great when polished. Don, some of the new tickler pins I have seen come with a sealing washer that the spring pressure closes. No clue how effective that is preventing leakage-epoxy sounds better. Carbs over the exhaust/starter definite fire hazard in general, though not as thrilling to open the hood on your running 280Z and see a hole in the 45PSI fuel line spraying and soaking the entire engine.|
|Thanks George, and sorry for the dissertatioin Dallas, maybe I should have studied law instead of printing!|
My first automobile emergency I experienced when I was 16 and the fuel pump let go on my 1966 Chevy Bel Aire. The fountain of fuel scared me enough that I thought I was going to die any minute due to an explosion or fire. The local Union 66 station owner was a friend and fixed me right up. I decided then and there that I would learn to do some of my own repairs and he was helpful in directing me to tackle bigger and more interesting projects.
When I rebuilt my TD carbs, I noticed the whole 'forward and aft' float bowl thing. Even though many cars are seen with two forward lids, I decided my fuel line would fit better with opposite lids. The lid I 'traded' for was not drilled, and I realized that holes in the lid were pretty stupid. So, I used JB Weld to plug the hole in the one I was keeping.
My pipes should stay polished because I applied clear enamel to them after I shined them. I bent them by hand, and wish I would have finangled a way to bend more precise bends, but I figured if I didn't like the results, I could try again (Like everything else I've done two or three times on this project!) I'll be the guy at MG 2006 haggling with a vender over a new set of pipes...
|Good point about the pins, Don. I think I will seal mine as I don't use them anyway.|
My Healey has overflow tubes but not pins in the cover.
I had heard that some atmospheric problems occurred with the sealed cover, which led to the scalloped washer for a vent. It appears as Dave said, we have a "medley" of overlapping applications :>)
I don't think I'll worry about the overflow pipes going through the hole in the front engine plate, or whether they go down the front or rear of the plate. The hole deal Just doesn't seem "factory" to me. A lot of trouble with bending the tubing and potential problem with tubing wear, etc, for a non apparent reason?
My memory of the ones I saw in the 50s was just a tangle of 1/8 tubing ;>)
|Just an aside...a friend years and years ago used to fill any tube he was bending with sand (even up to roll bar size), then when bent, would blow it out and clean it... seemed to work for him....no crinks ever.|
|gordon lawson - TD 27667|
|A great idea Gorgon. I will try that.|
|The best bent downpipes I have seen were bent using a can of OSH too form the bends.|
|They go over the plate and are secured by the clip Dave DuBois mentioned. No routing through the hole. See the #17 picture here:|
The only reason I can think of the pipes going through the hole was some repair person lost the clip and they just stuck the pipes in the hole to keep them from rattling about as much. These cars were classic for quick and dirty repairs, even by so called professionals and dealers.
You can also wander about the site looking at many of the original pictures and piece together the layout of the pipes.
BTW never try to justify the originality of something on the MG T's based on a hole, bracket, color, etc without multiple sources of evidence. These cars were made of standard resuable parts. A great example is the two bolts (painted black) on the valve cover that have no use in the TD, but are used in other cars.
A great many people have inadvertantly fixed extra holes in their firewall which were empty from the factory. Others have claimed a certain accessory certainly must be original because it fits so perfectly in such and such place. You get the idea.
Did you completly ignore the evidence I presented above? I agree that people do things all the time to these cars which may or may not be correct. For example, in picture 17 you show the temperature sending bulb capilary tube coiled at the radiator. My understanding is that it is coiled at the instrument. Who's right?
I enjoy your website, but you will have to provide a more compelling argument to support your routing than a picture of how you did it to convince me that on a TD the tubes go over the bearer plate. As for your argument that some mechanic lost a clip and routed them through that hole, well, if you have ever routed them through that hole yourself, you would know it would be a heck of a lot easier to find a replacement clip than bend that z-turn and convince the pipes to go through... believe me!
|OSH comes in can's?|
I did not know that!
David 55 TF1500 #7427
|They only come with 4 cans in a pack! Kind of an OSH appetizer... 8^)|
|Evan Ford - TD 27621|
|Dave B: I showed you one picture of my car but wanted you to look over all the pictures your have access too as well as the other pictures on the web site. I have yet to find in my life a picture of an unrestored car or an engine that I found that could be substantiated to not have had a carb overflow pipe replaced, that routed the pipes through the hole. I also saw at least a dozen cars in the 60's and very early 70's that did not show signs of significant engine modifications (ie rebuilds or air cleaner swaps) that routed the pipes through the hole. But 12 out of ~25,000 cars is not very statistically accurate.|
One of the problems with the pictures in the workshop manuals and drawings were that these were either preproduction cars/engines (remember that the first production car had to have a manual so the prototypes had to supply the pictures) or they were artists drawings in the form of etchings, again based on prototypes. Sometimes there was not a prototype of a MGTD but the same component was used in another vehicle or the designers would tell the artist "This is what we are planning etc. Draw it this way."
There are very few detail shots of production level cars in circulation. On my website you will find lots of pictures that get close to this area but because of bandwidth issues when I built the site, I purposefully scaned them at a lower resolution. In addition many of them are in shadows so you cannot see this detail.
When I get a chance I will pour over all the photos I have and see if I can find more evidence for you one way or another. You have to understand that there are no absolutes. Look at the FAQ you cited. The only evidence given (and countered by a number of folks) was that someone remembered it that way and they had seen unrestored cars and the fact that TC's did not have the hole and TD's did.
At least I think everyone agrees that they terminated at the clip. Should start a discussion if their ends were flush with the clip? Protruded beyond the clip? Were of stagered length? We could keep this thread going forever :-)
It could turn into one of those silicon vs. non-silicon brake fluid debates!
And for the record, I decided to terminate mine (slightly staggered) just below the bearer plate so any fuel would slosh harmlessly in the slip stream.
I'll look forward to your findings, and I thank you for your efforts.
|CARB OVERFLOW PIPES - Bend nice pretty bends with mandrel of choice and route over the engine bearer plate, 90 degrees downward bend, through retaining clip, Dogleg zee back through 1/2 inch hole in plate, continue down inside of plate through another retaining clip, cut one pipe off flush with bottom of clip, continue the other pipe 6.25 inches and cut diagonally at 30 degree angle with slant perpendicular to the axis of air flow.|
Polish frequently for appearance. If using tickler pin type float covers, seal with sealant of choice.
Periodically change your focus, and drive the car. 8>)
|Dallas: Can you advise me where I can find overflow pipes long enough to be able to follow your details? All of these replacement units are clearly not correct as I don't have enough material to get all the way through with your specifications. :-)|
|Of course Dallas, you realize you would want to champfer those tubes at an angle away from the air flow so the aerodynamic pressure is less at the opening, rather than creating a ram effect which could pressurize the bowls (when the tickler pins holes are plugged. ;)|
I'll drive my car as soon as the thing is finished. In the meantime, I hope I'll see you at Gatlinburg. I'll be in the B.
|Another way to bend them is to slide a small diameter clear plastic / vinyl tubing over the over flow piping and gently bend. This keeps the tubing from collapsing, but you still donít want to do 90 degree short radius bends. Also, I was always told that the purpose of the tickler pins were to tell you when you had your carburetors adjusted correctly. By pushing them with the engine running the engine should speed up. Donít want to get into the other discussion of the correct routing of the overflow tubing, as I think it might have changed over the production years and not been documented like the clutch rod verses cable or the clutch disk size. Those are JMT John|
Wrong tickler pins. We were talking about the pins thru the float bowl cover, not the ones that lift the carb piston. The piston omes are used for tuning. The cover pins to open the float valve to flush the valve. Seal these.
I disagree with your assessment, orignal overflow tubes went thru the plate. (without a "Z" bend)
As I have before I refer to Jim Holcombe's TF 1500, (1200 miles on it) so original it still had the original fill anti-freeze tag on it. The over flow tubes go thru the front plate hole and are clamped at the front. I just installed new tubes on my TF 1500, the ones from Moss are the correct length to end up just below the front bearer plate after going thru the front bearer plate. They would not be long enough if we went over the top.
|Having an "original" TF like some other members, I have to agree with Don Harmer about what's correct. Mine are the same as the ones he describes, through the bearer plate, then a small clip and down below the frame member.|
Hey! Us "original guy's" are here to keep you "fudge up" guy's on the straight.
"without a "Z" bend"
is it a bend to go from the back side of the bearer plate, through the hole, and another bend to go down the front of the bearer plate?
How I did it: (I posted this link above as well)
|Whoops! Time to eat a little crow. When I bought my TD, in 1988, it had been Volvoized. I sorely needed to see what a real TD looked like, so I took a trip up to Abingdon Spares. Gerry Goguen was gracious enough to let me spend as much time as I wanted in his museum taking photos of cars. I just went through some of the photos looking for this issue. Sure enough, I found one. I was really looking for the radiator pipe, but one shot shows the bearer plate and the pipes. They're going through the hole!|
The image is at http://www.ttalk.info/Goguen.jpg and it's from http://www.ttalk.info/picture_this.htm.
|Graham Robson- "MG T-series- The Complete Story", pg. 164 factory shot of TF motor left side " Where originality is concerned, owners should always study contemporary photographs like this." Pg154 shows the other side of the TF motor and the pipes are ...drum roll... routed through the hole in the bearer plate!. I am sure there are other pictures (chassis/engine shots)in TSO (thanks to Dick Knudson) that show this for TD's as well. George|
|So if you have unsealed tickler pins, you don't need the screwdriver handle? But you do need the fire extinguisher? OK, got it.|
|To All -- In Graham Robson's book "The T-Series MG's" on page 90 there is a factory picture of a TF engine which I think quite clearly shows the overflow pipes going thru the hole in the bearer plate. Mine don't but thats a personal choice.|
|R. K. (Bob) Jeffers|
|Just to keep the flames burnning...hey Bud, can you really "trust" that picture? I only say that because the hose clamps are "not correct" on that car! hmmmmm|
I do remember when I did the TF there was a "clamp" down there on my car I could not figure out was for what. (My carb pipes had been cut by PO so they drained right on to the exhaust manifold) John Twist re-built my carb's and when he sent them back to me the "new" tubes on them were "pre-bent" and fit right in that clamp.
I love these cars!
Can't you just hear the guys on the assembly line.............
"Hey mate...we are out of carb run-off clamps...what should I do?" "Just stick them through the bearer plate...that'll work!..let's get out of here and go have a pint"
David 55 TF1500 #7427
|I've been watching this thread, laughing all along. Over 40 posts! Sorry guys,I thought only the Jag folks were this detailed. That's why I don't show Jags anymore :-)|
Yes, Spring is officially here!
|"Yes, Spring is officially here!"|
If there was any doubt...just check weather forcast for Central Ohio Today!
It's offical (much like an M.G.) we are expecting more snow today than we have had all winter! Gone are those missrable 70 degree days of December!
Time to bust out my favorite "spring snow shovel" & some salt for the sidewalks!
David 55 TF1500 #7427
Bruce asked how to route the vent pipes. He obviously wanted a better answer than "Any way you wish" or he would have gone ahead and routed them that way. There was some disagreement on the correct routing, even by folks who generally are most up on such things, which is a facinating look at both the workings of the design process and manufacturing process of these cars.
This subject has been covered in the past, on other boards, and in books with passion, and rightly so. It opens a whole new discussion of the pipes' purpose, it links in the purpose of the float bowls with vented lids and float tickler holes, it brings to light design flaws, misconceptions and construction. Why should the Jag guys have all the fun? Individually it would be difficult for any one of us to determine what probably was on the minds of our cars' designers, and what each bit was correctly concieved for, but collectively we can come up with some pretty good answers. Anyone with a jones for history enjoys this kind of discussion, and takes away from it an appreciation of the others' veiwpoints.
Spring might be here, although some of us stil are enjoying a foot of snow or more. Honestly? I wonder why you followed along, much less put in your two cents if you didn't care for the 'route' this discussion followed.
|WOW - 45 replies and still going- I think the float valves are stuck! 8>)|
I wasn't intending to come across as being critical, just having a little chuckle. I understand and agree with the merits and fun of such a discussion. I'll even be looking at mine to see how they run. You see I was interested after all. This is the most friendly forum and group of internet friends I've ever been involved in and I really value that highly. I'm sorry if my prior post offended anyone.
More importantly is we've been in a terrible weather system here in AZ for over a week and I'm having TF withdrawal pains. Maybe that's my problem :-)
I put my TD on Jackstands on April 4 of last year. When I get my tub, I'll attack the interior and the chrome. Somewhere along the line I got a bit more into the originality of the restoration, and it is taking me longer (and more money) to finish because of it! Talk about creating a Grumpy Situation! lol
If I could spend one day driving your TF I think I would feel much, much better. Arizona will be in the thick of great weather any day now. I envy you your proximity to year around MG driving and flying fun. Here in the great north, we have to take our cars apart for six months to enjoy them during that time period, and don't even get me started on preheating aircraft engines and preflighting cold aluminum airframes ;)
warmly, but still below freezing
|This is exactly the kind of discussion we should be having. There is so much information, printed material and just plain knowledge that the members bring. Working through items like this is exactly what it is about. |
As with other discussions on the TD, we have had a good review of a number of serious issue (fire is very serious). As for the tubes. I will probably route them through the hole.
While the point was made that TD's evolved by borrowing from earlier designes, no one has come up with a better reason why the hole is in the engine plate.
|So far no difinitive answer from my pictures. I can't get a view in the area of the hole that is unmistakeable. The only one I have gotten so far was a MK II and they were over the top. But MK II's carbs are bit wierd anyway and the float bowels get tweaked etc.|
Right now I say there is enough evidence that it could go either way.
|What a great discussion and such passion ! I hardly dare to say anything but would point out that in the TF Service Parts List(second issue) that I have, on the PLATE F illustration (engine cylinder block components etc) a clip and bolt to take the overflow pipes is shown but significantly not numbered or referred to in the key. Presumably the illustration is a left over from earlier engine drawings and would seem to indicate that by the time of the TF the clip was not used and to me pushing the pipes through the bearer plate hole seems logical. When this happened I'll leave to others ! My clear memory of a 1953 TD I had was that there was a clip attached to the bearer plate. |
Best wishes to all
This thread was discussed between 08/03/2006 and 07/04/2006
MG TD TF 1500 index
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