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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Click Adjust & the M.G. Name

Been having some "off the post" conversations from my offer of a "click adjust file"...I know....we have beat the subject of valve adjustment to death ...but what the heck, going to toss this out there one more tyme and see what comes back.
Like "all things M.G." it comes down to what "expert", "instruction manual" or
"printed on the valve cover" information we accept as "correct"!
The printed instructions with my click adjust say to use "0.010" as buffer for
calibration...from the BBS, experts say use "0.025", then plus of course anywhere
from "0.012 to 0.019" dependent on what a PO might have installed, plus a completely
arbitrary thickness for compensation to determine "absolute gap of a worn tappet" !
OK...if that's not clear as mud, then of course "don't tighten till the loudest click, just close
the gap" advise! Then we have to factor in that the Moss catalog states "Not for use on "T"
engines."

I will be curious to see what else I get back on the file I offered up from the "top end ticking" thread! I did the job manually last time (click adjust
showed up 2 days later)....car was running well so I checked one or two valves and came up
with 8 clicks.

Part of the joy of MGownership, I guess, is that nobody seems to agree on anything...Heck,
all these years I have thought "M.G." stood for "Morris Garage" ...just yesterday I found out
that is incorrect! ...according to this anyway:
http://www.mgdriversclub.com/fun.stuff/trivia/dots.html

Cheers & Best Regards,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Dave: It depends on the cam fitted in the car. The original TD's used .019 except that later cars had .012. I suspect that there are very few original cams still running. Most have been replaced with the new cams so even though the manual and valve cover state .019, it should be set to .012 (or whatever the cam is that was replaced).

If anyone has a sure fire way to determine what the clearence should be let them speak. It ought to be interesting.

Chris
Chris Couper

David - The thickness of the "buffer" shim when calibrating the click adjust is not real important beyond the fact that it should be thick enough so it doesnt deform readily to the shape of any concavity in the rocker head. I used a0.025" shim when I did mine, feeling that the more thickness would contribute to a more accurate reading (oavekill? - perhaps).

As to which "expert" (tag on valve cover or shop manual) to believe for valve clearance, I learned early on not to believe the tag on the valve cover - they are too easy to swap. Our TD came with a tag saying 0.015", a value I have never ben able to equate to any XPAG engine. Just in the past year I was finally able to swap the valve cover with one that has 0.012" - the correct on for our TD with the present cam in it.

Regrding the Moss note about the click adjust being "Not for use on 'T' engines", I wrote to Craig Cody and asked him why not? His reply was that it would require a 5/16" Whitworth socket. Ok - I wrote back to him and stated that I purchased a 1/2" drive 5/16" King Dick socket from Moss Motors to use with my Click-adjust tool when adjusting the valves on our TD. To date, I have not had a response to that.

By the way, the Click-adjust is not present day innovation. When we first got our TD back in 1974, I heard about a tool that was available for adjusting the valves that just required "counting the clicks" to get the proper clearance. I never saw one of them and quit hearing about them until gunson brought out the Click-adjust.

I had read some time ago that M.G. printed with "full stops" was done because Kimber felt it looked better that way. That "Mr. Kimber, in pursuit of a name for his inspired cars, chose the M from Morris and the G from Garages as a tribute to his employer - Billy Morris" as stated inthe article from the MG Driver's Club, tells me that MG is at least associated with Morris Garages. That it may not "Stand" for Morris Garages is, I believe splitting hairs and is something that I am not going to loose any sleep over.
Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Chris - the following is a procedure that appeared in one of the T club's newsletter many years ago. I don't even remember which one it came from, but it seems to work (at least for the cam that I have, which uses a 0.012" clearance). If you feel that it is accurate, feel free to use it on your web site. Cheers - Dave

DETERMINING CAMSHAFT TYPE
Two different camshafts were supplied as original equipment for the XPAG and XPEG engines. The earliest type, part number AAA5776 (earlier numbers MG862/171 or X24084), was used in all TB and TC engines, and in TD engines up to engine number XPAG/TD2/24l15. This early cam requires a valve clearance of 0.019 in. The later type, part number AAA3096 (earlier number 168553) was used in all later TD and TF engines and requires a valve clearance of 0.012 in.
Unfortunately, now that even the newest TF is almost 40 years old, the engine numbers quoted above are not necessarily a valid guide for purpose of camshaft identification. Engines originally equipped with AAA5776 may have been fitted with AAA3096 in the course of an overhaul.
With the engine cold, remove the rocker cover and turn the engine over with the crank until #1 intake valve (2nd valve from front of engine) is wide open. At this point, #4 intake valve (7th from front) will be fully closed and on the exact center of the heel of the cam lobe. Set #4 intake to 0.021 in. clearance. This is the correct checking clearance for both cams, regardless of whether you use the degree wheel and dial indicator method or the simplified method which follows.
Now, wipe all the accumulated gook off the crankshaft pulley, and get out your measuring tape and a piece of chalk. Measuring around the rim of the pulley. make one chalk mark between 1/32 in. and 3/64 in. to the right (as seen from the front) of the top dead centre mark on the pulley. This corresponds to 5° BTDC, which is when the intake opens on the later cam (AAA3096). Make a second chalk mark 23/64 in. to the right of the TDC mark. This corresponds to 11° BTDC, which is when the intake opens on the earlier cam (AAA5776).
Next, turn the engine over with the crank (it’s easier with the spark plugs out) until the pushrod for #4 intake valve just barely locks up enough so that you can’t spin it between your fingers. At this point, the timing pointer on the timing chain cover should be more or less aligned with one or the other of the chalk marks.
If the pointer aligns with the 11° mark, then you have the early cam (AAA5776) and you should set the valve clearance to 0.019 in. with the engine hot. If the pointer aligns with the 5° mark then you have the later cam (AAA3096) and you should set the valve clearance to 0.012 in. hot. If the pointer does not align with either mark, go back through the entire procedure again to make sure you did it right.
What effect does the wrong valve clearance setting have on the engine? This is a bit difficult for the novice to pinpoint unless he can compare performance to a properly set up car. In general, however, an engine equipped with AAA5776, but with the valve clearance set at 0.012 in. will be very low on power. An engine equipped with AAA3096, but with the clearance met at 0.019 in. will be slightly down on power and will produce a really awful amount of valve clatter. You should also bear in mind the fact that while clearance which is too large is noisy, it doesn’t necessarily produce any mechanical damage. On the other hand, burnt exhaust valves will almost surely result from unduly small valve clearance, as in the case of an AAA5776 cam set at 0.012 in.

David DuBois

WOW...David, the depth and knowledge you have on these cars never fails to amaze me, I always look forward to an answer from you on this post! Indeed the "0.025" note I attached to my "cheat-sheet" came from you from one of your earlier post on this subject. You made clearer the fact that a lot of "swapping" has occoured on our little cars as far as valve covers & engines than I did as well. (Hope I didn't confuse anyone out there). I do believe I have an old 50's mag with an add or article about the "counting the clicks" tool ...but again it was from information from you on this post that lead me to ignore the "Moss note" and purchase the click adjust. THANKS!
"DETERMINING CAMSHAFT TYPE"....If Chris doesn't put that one on the site I will for sure be printing up a copy of it for my humble files..can't wait to try it.
David, from all of us out here THANK YOU SO MUCH!
By the way...I am not going to loose any sleep over the "M.G." info ...but I did find it interesting reading for a cold day and was something, I at least, had not heard before.
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David
As uneven wear is not a factor, I think the mathematical method might be the most accurate way of determining the number of clicks needed for a given gap. (30 X TPI X Gap).

The Clickadjust has 30 clicks to an inch and the TF adjusting screw 25.4 Threads Per Inch. If the required gap is .012 the formula would be 30 X 25.4 X .012 = 9.144 Clicks.

John MG or is it M.G. TF 5924 (which requires a .012 gap, I think)
John James

John - That works. I am just the type that likes to try both ways and if I come up with the same results with each method, I am sure that it is correct. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Dave: I have copied the info and will post it to the faqs pages next time I am in there.
Chris Couper

In reading both WE Blower and Philip Smith I see reference to increasing the valve clearance to .022in. as an early step to boosting performance. Smith says that if you object to the noise leave it at .019 but you will lose about 1 hp.
I wonder about the .012 in. cam?
Probably doesn't matter to most of us since we just putt-putt around but just thought I would ask.
Regards,
Dennis
D F Sexton

Dennis
If a .012" gap is equal to 9.144 clicks on the Clikadjust and each click is .0013in, I was thinking of trying 10 clicks on numbers 1,4,5 and 8 (exhaust) valves and 9 clicks on the rest. If it's dry tomorrow, as forecast, I'll warm up the TF and put these setting in.
John
John James

John,
From your post:
"I was thinking of trying 10 clicks on numbers 1,4,5 and 8 (exhaust) valves and 9 clicks on the rest."
Interesting...I was wondering along the same lines. Let us know how that works.
Might be a while before I get to try anything...tried to get in the garage yesterday and the door is
froze shut! Poor lil' babe ...I'll bet she needs a warm hug! I am concerned for the safety of the OSH
and ABA in the cooler there as well. This could be far too cold for English Ale....I now fear reprisal
from the Gawds of Lucas for "alcohol abuse".
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David,
ABA? OSH is Speckled of course, but what is ABA?
Since Santa brought me a click-adjust, I need to ask the question, is that 9-10 clicks on a cold or hot engine, or does it matter?
Robert Dougherty

Robert
9 clicks for a hot engine and 10 if it's cold. I too would like to know what sort of brew David's ABA is. It sounds interesting, but what about the after effects.
John
John James

Robert,
ABA= Arrogant Bastard Ale, of course!
My understanding is that you always adjust the valves whilst the engine is hot. Not being a very good mechanic that was my primary reason for going with the click adjust...I could never seem to get all 8 done before the engine cooled down......ok, looking at this before I hit "send"....I'll just go ahead and "bust my own" before someone else does ....yes, my normall proceedure is: "with # 8 fully open, adjust # 1, drink an OSH....with # 7..ect ect".
Ah-HA....beat you to it, didn't I ;-) !!!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David
Hope you manage to gain entrance and rescue the arrogant bastard from the freezing speckled hen before something nasty happens. I'll take the TF on a tour of the local pubs tomorrow (Five Bells, Queen's Head and the Elephant & Castle) stopping for a quick OSH at each. The engine should be warm enough by the time I get home and wield the Clikadjust. I'll let you know how I get on.
Hic
John
John James

Arrogant Bastard, of course! I was racking my brain (such as it is!) for an English Ale & not an American Ale! Have had a few Bastrds while out west last year, not too many places sell it back here in the East. A good quality Ale...
Robert Dougherty

David
I managed to adjust the tappets and retune the carbs this morning. I ended up using 9 clicks for the exhaust valves and 8 for the rest after double checking the first two settings with a .012" feeler guage.
It hasn't made any difference noise-wise, but I think the acceleration might be marginally better, although it's very hard to quantify. Having just fitted new NGK plugs gapped at .028" the engine started rough running on the third test run. This threw me for a while until I discovered number four plug had failed. Rain is forecast tomorrow so I doubt if I'll be able learn how noisy the tappets are when the engine has been cold soaked. In cold weather a couple of tappets used to tick away merrily for the first hundred yards or so before quietening down. BTW have you found the screwdriver on the clikadjust will not lock into the slots of the adjusting screw heads? I tried filing it sharper without much success.
Cheers
John
John James

John - The problem you are having getting the screwdriver of the click-adjust to engage the screw slot may be that the socket is too long to allow full engagement. I had to gring the socket down a bit in length to get the screwdriver engaged properly. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

David D
Thanks for the tip. The new 1/4" W socket is 1/8" longer than the original 13mm socket I was using on the MGB. I'll get it ground down by 3/16ths.
John
John James

How critical is it to set the valves?

I have run my car for three years without doing it. It may be a little noisy, but I think these engines are anyway.

Does that click adjust work well for this car? I have tried adjusting valves on other cars before my TR-3 and old fords, all with bad results. Should I leave well enough alone?????


thx, David
52 MG TD
David

David
I suspect your TD might appreciate a little readjustment on the valve front. The Clikadjust tool gives very accurate results. I found it invaluable when setting the gaps on my MGB, but have had some difficulty with the TF. (See David Dubois' earlier suggestion regarding the problem with the Clikadjust screwdriver). The tool worked fine on the MGB with a 13mm Draper socket, but the 1/4 W / 5/16" socket which fits the adjuster nuts on XPAG engines is 1/8" longer and this prevents the screwdriver from locking firmly into the screw head. Once this is overcome the Clikadjust is much quicker and allows all eight valves to be adjusted before the engine cools off, which is a boon for amateurs like me!
Cheers
John 54 TF
John James

John
So what length is needed for the socket?
Dave
D Clark

Dave Clark - At the risk of sounding flip, short enough for the screwdriver tip to seat into the adjuster slot firmly. I ground the back side of my socket down to get the right distance. Why did I do that? I don't know, it just seemed to be the right thing to do at the time, but either end can be ground down. If you are doing the grinding yourself (which I did) just check periodically to see if the distance is correct. If you need to have someone else, like a machine shop do the work, e-mail me and I will measure my socket for you. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

Dave,
Valve adjustment is as important a part of the tune-up on our MG’s as timing, plugs, rotor etc. If you haven't been able to adjust the valves successfully, I would suggest you contact someone in your local club who has a good mechanical background and have him/her help you, it really isn't difficult, and once you've been shown, you will know how, or, if you don't belong to a local club, find a good mechanic in your area and get the valves adjusted before the 2004 driving season in Chicago....you will notice the change immediately, and your car will thank you for it.
Safety Fast!
Robert Dougherty

D DuBois
Yeah, that's kinda flip. You must be jealous that I've been able to escape the last ten Winters in Puget Sound! We still manage to spend Summers at Stuart Island in the San Juans so we get the best of all seasons. So now if you're not too green with envy I have not bought the click adjust tool yet and only asked because I thought I'd get a socket ready. I wanted to determine if I needed a standard or deepset. BTW, does the SAE 5/16th work. If so I'd like to butcher one of those instead of my expensive Whitworth.

I'd like to meet you sometime as I think we might have a lot in common. Your posts to this site are very impressive with the knowlege breadth and depth of these cars.
D Clark

Dave Clark (we are getting too many Daves on this thread), No , not jealous at all. My wife and I are refugees from Southern California some 37 years ago and we have become permenant fixtures. We go down to visit family in April each year (the only time of the year that we consider So. Cal. to be livable, and then just barely) and we can't wait to get back to the rain. Particularly now that I am retired and don't have to fight the occasional snow to get to work, the winters are not a problem to us.

Regarding the socket, first it must be a 1/4"W or 5/16"BSF (they are the same socket) and accomodate a 1/2" drive so the 5/16" SAE won't do. You should be able to pick up an individual socket from Moss Abingdon or at the following link:
http://www.mrcybermall.com/machine_tool_parts/index.html
The socket that I have is ground down to 1.341" in total length. I did that with both the 1/4"W socket and the 1/2" SAE Craftsman socket that I have for doing the valves on our MGB.

Hope that this helps. Keep those toes soaking down there in Arizona, I understand it is quite painful when the webs start cracking.
Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Thanks for the help Dave. Stay wet, drive safe!
D Clark

This thread was discussed between 18/01/2004 and 26/01/2004

MG TD TF 1500 index

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