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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - ebay TF 1500?

Anybody besides me find something strange about this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4596375876&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Look at the Vin Plate:
CAR:7834 Engine:168421 ????

Apears to be a "new plate" and not correct as is missing the "/" in the car number by the way Abingdon struck them.

Sent following to seller:
Somewhat confused by the Vin #'s on this car. Engine number does not follow sequence for these cars. Is there documentation from British Motor Hertiage Trust showing this as a 1500? Add also says built from 3 TF's ..do you know #'s from those cars?
Thanks,David

I will be curious to see if this shows in questions on the auction.

Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

OOps hit send too quick!
Also no "XPEG" or "XPAG" for engine stamping.
David Sheward

That's the Moss repro number plate, which is recognizable because of minor differences between it and the actual factory number plate. When I needed a new plate for my car, I bought one on eBay that was claimed to be NOS. I'm not sure if it was, but it was an exact match for the old plate, unlike the Moss item. In addition, whoever stamped the plate did a poor job of copying the numbers. I think the engine number could be 6841 between two vertical lines instead of 184681, as the digits at the ends look more like than 1. In any case, either number could not be an XPEG engine number.

The ad says that they assembled the best parts from 3 cars to make 1 'good' car. The cowls appear to indeed be from a 1500, but the engine is probably an XPAG, instead of XPEG. If they had 3 cars to work with, one thinks they could have had at least one good number plate to work from.

For a Franken'T', it isn't all that bad. But the details are all screwed up. The problems include the number plate, dash vinyl covered instead of painted, painted gas cap, incorrect black upholstery, ugly gearshift lever, steering wheel center wrongly painted, some kind of oddball light on the rear bumper, incorrect radiator hoses, ugly alloy valve and side covers, and that's just from a cursory examiniation of the photos. Plus, it's in Hawaii.

For someone who lives there, they might be able to make a deal. Maybe if you like the black vinyl treatment, you could live with the way it looks now. Otherwise, you'd need to spend a couple thousand to bring it up to snuff.
Mark B.

To fix some transcription errors:

The car number is probably:

HDC46/7834 (slash lost in transcription)

Engine Number is either:

6842 or 168421 depending on what the vertical lines at the end mean ( or 1). Both numbers are nonsense, since first number is too high to be an XPEG. I believe the second number is too high to be an XPAG, but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure why I did such a bad job typing the numbers in the first post, maybe I'm the fellow who composed the replacement plate.
Mark B.

David....interesting TF, not bad appearancewise with a little artistic license taken with the dash. As to wether or not it is a "1500", hey its got the badge on the bonnet dont it? They did mention the engine had been re-bored....perhaps to boost the cc to 1466 from 1250....presto its a 1500 now Bunky! 7834 would be a good chassis number for a 1500, my register shows TF 7838 had engine XPEG 1686 and TF 7845 had engine XPEG 1693. The engine number they give might have been a Gold Seal replacement...not sure of their number sequence but the numbers are not Kosher for a 1250 or 1500. Ask for a photo of the engine plate...I know they can be repro but odd ball number that matches would tell the tale. After 50 odd years why quibble, it sure looks like mine and as long as there is a 4 banger under the bonnet.....safety fast EH?
jeff payne

So, the proper engine number for Car No. 7834 would be about 1682. Or maybe 1684, since they weren't assigned in exact serial sequence. It's possible that an two digits (21 or 41) were added to the end when they transcribed the numbers to the new plate. A look at the engine number plate might help sort things out, but that plate is likely also not original. The engine block should have the number stamped just above the number plate also.
Mark B.

I wonder how many of us wished our cars looked this good. I know, I wish mine did! Someone has obliviously spent a considerable amount of time and many francs on this car. It will be interesting to see how much it sells for. More than likely it will! Bob
Bob

Hey - I'm building a Franken-T and I'm happy with what I'm doing!

It all boils down to philosphophy, doesn't it: did I want to build a car that was as close to factory specs as I could get, or did I want to build a serviceable hot-rod from the amalgam of parts available to me.

I'm doing the latter, and if were in the market for a finished TF rather than the beast I'm building, I'd look at something like this Hawaii car very carefully; to me the quality of the finished product is far more important than the provenance of the parts.

The caveat, of course, is this - you build it non-stock, you advertise it as non-stock. I think it's just that simple.

This philosophy is even showing up in the [gasp!] Porsche world now, where 356's that were previously modified and ostracized at concours events are now looked upon favorably as "Outlaw" machines. And I think many of you might agree that there is some virtue in having a 2200cc 180hp Porsche 356B with air conditioning, a 5-speed and 4 wheel disc brakes.

So let's hear it for T's of all types, shall we - even those with wierd alloy valve covers [hey - I think that looks kinda cool...]

From the frozen north where anything in Hawaii looks good,
Dave J.
Dave Jorgensen

I'm sorry if I came off as a snob with the 'Franken-T' comment. I agree with the sentiment, that it's OK to sell a non-stock T, if you advertise it honestly.

I can appreciate a hot rod as well as a concours job, but this car looks like they were shooting for concours, but they either weren't knowledgeable enough or didn't care enough to take care of all of the details. YMMV.

Not that my car (TF 1500 #10030) is perfect. I'm fairly happy with it, but I can point out quite a few imperfections.

As it is, the faults on the car are all small, and easily correctible. Or, if you like the way it looks now, you could buy the car and not change anything. Lots of people like the period correct alloy covers. Personally, I think they're ugly, but that just means that I'll never put them on my own car.

The pro wrestler Goldberg has a show about classic cars and one thing I learned from the show is that he doesn't always buy the cars himself. Sometimes he has an agent look and buy the cars for him. Maybe I could get the assignment to fly to Hawaii and check out this baby.
Mark B.

Not much of this car is after market and uses OEM factory parts
- This was a complete frame-up restoration!
Every item we sell is guaranteed 100% AUTHENTIC or your money back!

Not a bad lloking car at all ...but is it "up" to some of the above claims?
David Sheward

David

You are missing the obvious with this engine number.

That number 168421 is the casting number for the late TD and TF (not XPEG) block. So my guess is that, no, it does not have an XPEG engine.

XPEG blocks have a casting number of AEF 117.

Mike Francks
TC 8332 (with XPEG 1592)
Mike Francks

That's my "gut" feeling as well (not an XPEG/1500 engine) or something screwy here.
Car # 7838 shows on "the list" with engine # XPEG/1686. I thought at first, ok so maybe they "meant" Engine # XPEG/1684...and the "21" was aronius...but the list shows XPEG/1684 being in car #7893.
I look very closly at TF1500 #'s ever since one of our BBS friends reported his car as AWOL!
Personally ..I think the BBS members should all pitch in and Mark & I (with less than concoures TF's in tow) should head for Hawaii and investagate so we could all rest easier! Mark has not been in that dry warm TX. weather so long that he has forgotten what Ohio winters are like. We should be able to sort all this out and be back ...oh say around April.

Maybe I am too honest? Here's the last one I sold on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4589077121&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT

Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427

David Sheward

I just read Mike's post again...did he mean "chassis number"? Looks like we better take a TC with an XPEG with us as well!
OK ...we need 3 tickets now....anybody else want to go?
Jeff Payne did a lot of hard work putting the list together! LOL
Cheers,
Just me again...damn it's cold out there!
David Sheward

First time on this great site although I've been reading it for about a year.
About to start a basket case TF 1500 (HDA 16/9218 - XPEG 3109 - not on the record yet) but some missing parts which I'll be trying to find over the next few years!
I thought the side shots looked odd - why use 14" wheels?! (see spare wheel close-up for tyre size of 175/75 R14. (Another tyre shot shows 185/65....))
Peter Wilson

Thats just plain damm funny David. If I ever use ebay to sell anything I'm gonna give the job of writing the script to you buddy. I did something very simmilar in a resume for the company that I used to work for (33 years). Company ID photo had my grocho glasses on. Love to throw a twist whenever possible.
Good work.
As for the TF I seem to remember somebody having a boat load of parts for sale several months ago in the 50th state posted on this board. Same guy??

LaVerne
LED DOWNEY

Very entertaining, David! Do you miss flying with the Eagle? Sounds carefree! Except the frame rust part..
Tom

Peter: http://www.niagarabritishcarclub.org/mgtnumbers/numbers.html
you can email me with the colours and the city?
gordon lawson - TD 27667

What a perfect example of a replacement "number" plate... added it to my main "numbers" page ....
I think I had better go with you both to examine the placement of the screws in the plates !!!!!!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

While the spare is a 14", the car seems to be riding on 15" (186/65R-15)
Carl Floyd

I'm sorry but I think this car is a disaster. I saw it before this thread started and came away from it with a very negative feeling. Pictures lie and from the problems that are revealed in the photos and description one can expect tenfold the problems in the flesh. Anyone who would use a 14" spare and 15" road tires (assuming they are all four the same) has such lack of understanding as to what is right that the whole car is probably that way. Somewhat of a kluge without intelligent design or excellence in execution.

But then I guess I don't feel very strongly about it right? Because I took an expensive trip from Phoenix to Alexandria, VA several years ago to look at a TF which was great in description and photos but a diaster in person I'm a little sensitive to misrepresentation. I was, by the way, rewarded with just the opposite when I went to Houston to pick up my car. It was the best I was hoping for.
D Clark

Sometimes you just get a feeling something isn't right.....I had been searching the archives for a AWOL TF....this morning I looked a little closer. It was a TD! I just got off the phone with Charles Beard.
I told him where his engine is!

1952 MG TD roadster, registered 1953
VIN No. and car No. TD15559: License Plate No. 1952 MG (New Mexico)
Car number located on front left frame
Body Type 22381; Body No. 14920/15957
Engine Block No.s 168421 2621D3; Head No. 168422
Brass Plate on Engine No. 27782, Type XPAG . TD2
Bright red body paint w/ red leather seats, red radiator slats and head lights.
Bias Ply tires w/ gray steel wheels. Spare tire cover is red with chrome surround.
Wood dash has all original instruments and switches.
This MG is Concours condition and is a two time National Champion.

Haulmark, Kodiak enclosed white trailer with silver trim. 2100 lbs made in 2001
Four wheels, side door on left, ramp door on rear.
14 ft long, 7 ft wide, 8 ft high, aluminum construction with wood paneling inside.
4 inch row black and white checker racing stripes pained on sides, front to rear.
Large 2 = foot MG logo painted on back in red paint.
VIN No. 16HPB14291A003573
License Plate No. 47371TRD
Both items were stolen from Las Cruces, New Mexico on 16 October 2005
Report any information to Las Cruces police department: (505) 528-4200 or
4222.
Or call Charles Beard (owner) at (505) 496-7011 or (505) 525-0993
Case no. 25-21580
Thanks, and let this be a reminder to us allour best attempts at
security
can be overcome in minutes by determined thieves.
David Sheward

Dave

I trust you weren't serious when you told this guy where his engine is.

This is another engine mis-identified by the casting numbers. Again a late TD block (168421) with a casting date of April 21, 1953 (21D3) with a late TD head (168422).

I have not seen engines so mistakingly identified before and yet here are two in a week.

Mike
Mike Francks

Mike,
Nope ...what you see here is a truely classic "senior moment"! I have earned myself possible fame as my picture will no doubt now apear if one googles "eskmio pie-head". I kept looking at that "engine #" and knew I had seen it before..even after you told me, I just didn't "get it"...(good chance pic will also show up as "ulta-moroone" as well)...bugs bunny will be proud!
The only good thing I guess is I had a couple of nice phone conversations with Charles, 1 got his intrest, the second when we both figured out what happened with the "engine number". He does thank all from this BBS that still maintain the watch for his TD...even those (me) that seem to be a few fries short of a happy meal. LOL
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Dave, there was I trying to compose a witty post about Sherlock Sheward! Good job my brain cells are on a go slow due to the cold.
John S James

More like "s##t for brains"!
What can I say...intentions were good...can I blaim this on frozen brain cells...and still get passage to Hawaii for "Izzy" and I to thaw out?
David Sheward

Keep it up Dave

Nice to know that we have folks that take the time to review things like this.
Bruce Cunha

IMHO...sombody got lucky this did not hit reserve!
Just a little too much "side-stepping" for my taste:
A:"WE CAN JUSTIFY THAT IT IS IN FACT A MG TF 1500"
Ok...please justify engine model & number!
I asked if the engine plate showed XPAG or XPEG and told them where to find it. (this one didn't "make" the auction!)
Then:
Q:"Any further data for the actual engine number for this car? 168421 is NOT a ligit number for a 1500 engine of this era!"
A: "THE VIHICLE CONSISTS OF ALL ORIGINAL IF NOT APPROVED PARTS FROM MOSS."

I WILL be back on my "soap box" again concerning sales of "badges, ID plates, and titles for cars long gone" as a result of this ...even if I did make an idiot of myself concerning the engine "casting numbers"! I don't think too many on this BBS would argue that "approved parts from Moss" installed on a "kit" do not make it an "M.G."! (not that this one was a "kit"..but how far off from somebody doing that are we?)
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

This thread was discussed between 09/12/2005 and 15/12/2005

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.