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MG TD TF 1500 - EX176

I'm not near my books, and can't remember what was EX176. I'm sure it was a car for a land-speed record attempt, but I can't quite remember for sure.

Thanks. Tom
t lange

I don't have a photo of the 176, but I do of the 186 which was at Gatlinburg in 06. PJ



P S Jennings

I'm trying to acquire an NOS XPAG engine marked EX176/ from it's original 50's owner, and suspect it is one of a group prepared for special racers or for a special speed attempt. These are the factory go-fast MG blocks without water passages between the block and head, with external water connections.

Ken Miles used one of these engines in his R1 and/or R2; I remember a TD on eBay a few years ago that had an EX176 engine (but not original to the car); TD/C 25051 had an EX176 engine installed at the factory as the original engine, but I don't know where it is, and I believe Don Martine races one of them, as well as having a spare.

Anybody know any more aboout these engines? I've seen serial numbers as high as 16, so there must have been a group of them

Thanks. Tom
t lange

Tom, found this link.
Mike

Hemmings Motor News - July 2008 - Departments (Page 247)
mg td 1952, this very unique rhd car was fitted with 1 of 18 factory racing engines of 1466cc, #EX176/2, some documents but history unknown, car is BRG, ...
www.hemmingsdigital.com/hemmings/200807/?pg=249
Mike Hart (52 TD 16378)

Anyone have photos of these engines....why the lack of water passages between block and head? (how does this increase power?)
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

Thanks, Mike; I have a record of that ad and believe that was the same car as on eBay, perhaps after changing hands. As I remember it was a non-matching engine. The price in the Hemmings ad was $32,500.

Gordon - I believe that it was intended to do away with the head gasket and all the related problems of a high-compression engine. It certainly seemed to work since Ken Miles did all right in his R1 and R2, as does Don Martine today.

Still no explanation of what EX176 actually was as a project (some have referred to these blocks as EX179 blocks, and/or Bonneville blocks). I know EX175 was the MGA prototype fitted with a 1466 engine, and EX179 was the sister car fitted with the Bonneville streamline body, so I think there is some confusion here. The engine I am trying to buy is definitely marked EX176/XX.

Tom
t lange

Tom,
It is possible the engine IS Ex-176 !
The "Experimental" numbers were not always allocated to a complete rolling vehicle.
Very often an experimental engine or front supension or another newly developped part, got an "Ex" designation too.

Gordon,
If you're interested in these record breaking engines there is only one book to read: "Maintaining the Breed" by John Thornley.

Hope this helps,

Nick
Nick Herwegh

Tom
EX 172 the proposed successor to the T series, original conception was in early 1951 however it was an unaproved model was was kept secret within the works. It was raced at Le Mans in 1951 by George Phillips, with an aluminium body and aerodynmaic styling very similar to the MGA which as we all know took over from the T series. EX 175 was a new design approved by john Thornley and built by Syd Enever who was chief designer at the MG factory at that time. The mechanics etc were basic TF 1500. The design was sidelined by BMC who had just taken over the MG production in favour of the Austin Healey 100 until 1954 when the first production models of the MGA were released.
Hope this helps.
Mick
Mick Cook

Lots of interesting information, but nothing really relating to the EX176/ engine I am hoping to acquire. Thanks all; I'll just carry on and see what it is when/if I can get it.

Tom
t lange

Nothing really relating ???
Tom the engine IS Ex-176 !
The answer is on page 240 of the David Knowles book "MG the Untold Story", Appendix 2 "the Complete MG Ex Register".
I quote:

"Ex-176: 72 mm bore by 90 mm stroke 4 cylinder 1,466 cc TD engine for USA - Job No ZM. 15838 ( 44 drawings: presumably, this is the origine of the later TF 1500 engine. Drawings Ex-176/42,43 and 44 refer to a 1588 cc MGA engine for Sebring in 1961, and cross refer to Ex-178, although it is likely that this is a simple case of misbooking.)" Dated: Febr 1951.

Nick
Nick Herwegh

Thanks all and Nick - that's a very useful answer. I'll look into the drawings to try to learn more.

Tom
t lange

Gordon, I think there is a picture of one of these engines in Maintaing the Breed, beside some dicussion as Nick says above. My copy is at the moment hiding from me- it may be at work and I'll look Monday.
George Butz

I believe this could be easily resolved. Neil Cairns is probably one of the few really knowledgable experts on the XPAG engine.

I belive an e-mail to him, would get you the information you need.

n.cairns650@btinternet.com

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Hello, i have been reading this thread about the EX176 engine. i have a 1952 TD with a EX 176/2 engine installed in it.But not the original engine for this car. i was also looking for info on this car Chassis # TD18892. now in Penna. USA. It was in england in the 1960's and list in the T register as being used for a record braking attemp.It came to the USA in 1970. thanks for any more info ...Stace
S Leichliter

Stace, have you contacted the "T Register" in the UK to see if they have any info? Google their excellent website.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Yes i have and they only go back as far as 1969 when the TD was in england, it is a right hand drive export car, i would like to know what country it when to first...stace
S Leichliter

Neil Cairns replied to my question about his experience with the racing engine described above, and his reply is as follows, "I have no knowledge of racing 1250cc XPAG or 1466 XPEG engines."

Tom
t lange

This thread was discussed between 19/08/2010 and 30/08/2010

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