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MG TD TF 1500 - Factory Records

I keep seeing references to factory ledgers for the TD cars, from which various researchers have gathered authoritative information on production history. Can anyone direct me to the location of these ledgers, which are sometimes called build records?

I am puzzled because after inquiring I have received a reply from the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust stating that the records for pre-TF cars have not survived, and no-one at the MG Car Club has replied to my e-mails. But enough research has been based on such ledgers that I would find it surprising that they had disappeared.

Any help would be much appreciated, as I am keen to study the ledgers for my work on Mark II or TD/C cars.

Tom Lange
t lange

Do you mean www.tregister.org for detailed information on production records?

Jasper
Jasper L Nederhoed

No, I am referring to the original factory hard-copy ledgers from which that on-line information was derived, and which contains more information, including destination, special notes, etc.

Tom
t lange

Tom, I don't know where they are. However, I remember from somewhere "original" records that at least survived showing chassis and engine numbers were used to enter the data on the treg. website. So I do think they exist. Dick Knudson may know, try contacting him. George
George Butz

Tom:

I think I've read previously on this bbs that all MG production records were literally dumped into a trash bin. I can't remember if this was in the 1980 Abingdon shut down or whether it was just T's and earlier.

There are a few threads on the topic, and I think the last one was about a year ago.

Sorry I can't be more specific,

Dave
Dave Jorgensen

Thanks, Dave - I remember a thread relating to the TF records (which ARE preserved), but am still wondering where the TD records went. I can see throwing away such records in the 60's or maybe even the mid- 70's as being valueless, but as late as 1980?

I joined the NEMGT Register in about 1968 with membership 1176, so interest was growing then.

All advice appreciated.

Tom
t lange

Ok... ALL MG Factory records from 1925 on were dumped in a dumpster by BMC .... when BMC was formed, they decided that nothing previous to that year was worth anything.
One of the workers jumped in the dumpster and pulled out a box or two, this happened to be the MM records.
BMC kept all records from then on...this would include TF and on to 1980 when they were transferred to the Heritage Trust....

This I have heard from two or three sources.... (BMC was the Microsoft of its day......)


pp.s ... I don't know how the info that gives the build date for our TDs was transcribed into that T-register data base (but I'm glad it was)
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

The Rev. Dr. Dick Knudson, wrote his PhD thesis while working at Abingdon.

I know for a fact he rescued many documents and his archives are constantly being referred-to.

If you have a specific request, I would be happy to provide you with his coordinates. Contact me off this forum for more info.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

I have decided to roll the dice and see what the British motor heratage folks have for info on the TF. Twice now the site has kicked me out and triggered a "fraud alert." they want me to call their gift shop and have the order handled over the phone. I am going to give it one more try. If unsuccessfull I will consider this service as something that is not worth the bother.
D. Sander

Tom,
The factory records were dumped when Abingdon closed down, some records were rescued from the skip, I believe all the TD were rescued, am not sure about the TF records. The MG YA and YB were dumped so no records exist.

Last year I visited the MG car club office at Kimber House, Abingdon just outside the old factory gates. The rescued records are kept there in their archives, I was lucky enough to be allowed access and found the entry in the production records ledger for my mg td27905 built on the 21st May 1953.

I can't remember the archivists name, however you should be able to contact Kimber house on either e mail address mgcc@mgcc.co.uk or telephone on +441235555552

I have attached a scan of a Photostat copy I got of the MGTD production records for 21st May 1953.

It looks like you will need a trip to the UK tom if you want to examine the records, as you will see from my attached pic the records do not hold a lot of detail.

Hope this helps Chris

Chris Pick

Nice image Chris, I think you were lucky to get that as the record keepers have been shy of releasing images of their records.

TD 27902 on that list is a Melbourne survivor.

Many of the records that were thrown out I understand were correspondence files as opposed to ledgers.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

It sounds like there were two times records were thrown out....when BMC took over and in 1980? I had assumed the final records in '80 were transferred to the Heritage Centre....figures...!
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

>pp.s ... I don't know how the info that gives the build date for our TDs was transcribed into that T-register data base (but I'm glad it was)

Gord, the T-Type Build Date records were painstaking transcribed from the originals by Roger Furneaux of Mad Metrics into a flat file database. These were then transferred to an Excel file and several years ago I added them as a search feature on the T Register website.

Regards,
Steve James
http://ttypes.org
Steve James

Steve, Has the issue of the last digit being dropped from the engine number on many TD's ever been looked into? Example: my TD #10835 is missing the 9 on the engine #11249. Thanks, George
George Butz

Hello George,
I wasn't aware of that problem. I actually haven't been involved with the T Register site in about three years - I now help my father run http://ttypes.org instead. However, when I get home in a few days (I'm currently travelling) I will try to look out the original production records spreadsheet and see if the problem you state is contained within that as well. By doing so we can narrow down whether the missing digit came from the ledgers, the transfer to Excel from the flat file database, or from the transfer to the website.

cheerio,
Steve.
Steve James

Well, yesterday I did send a mail to David Butler, chairman of the T-register site which keeps the production records. This was his reply:

Dear Jasper,
The full factory records were lost when the MG factory closed in 1980. We were able to rescue the production records, which only record the chassis numbers, engine numbers, and date of production. Also for TFs only, the original colour scheme. There is no information available about (for instance) the dealer who sold the car or the first owner. For an individual car, the information available through our website is all that we hold.
The Heritage Centre at Gaydon holds copies of the production records, and should be able to sell copies of individual pages from those records, if this is of interest.

Hope this helps,
Best Regards,
David Butler
Jasper L Nederhoed

Steve, thanks and keep us posted. George
George Butz

Jasper - based on what Chris has reproduced there is another very useful bit of information on the production shseets, namely the general destination of the car - Home, EXLU (Unknown), EXL/NA (North America), and even, I believe, such oddities as EXL/FL (Finland?) etc.

I am just as interested as before in seeing these production records for my work on the Mark II TD, and appreciate everyone's help in clarifying what survives and where.

Tom

t lange

George,

I'm now back in the UK and I have sourced the original .DBF files sent through to me in 2007 by Roger Furneaux, who as mentioned above transcribed the Factory Records into a flat-file database.

Unfortunately the original files he provided me with also show the same "missing last digit" problem that you speak of - I've checked your car's record in there and your engine number is XPAG/TD2/LHX1124 without the final "9". This means that there was either a problem with Roger's system storing the data he entered, or a problem when he exported the data to send it to me.

So there's little that can be done, I'm afraid, short of re-transcribing the problem engine numbers from the original records!

Best Regards,
Steve
http://ttypes.org
Steve James

Steve, thanks for checking. A couple years ago someone on the board posted the range of TD car numbers that seemed to be affected, but I don't remember that now. I guess as long as you have your original engine and/or ID plates it doesn't really matter. Anyway, knowing the build date is so cool, and I do appreciate the effort that went into the searchable data base. Thanks, George
George Butz

This thread was discussed between 04/03/2011 and 14/03/2011

MG TD TF 1500 index

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