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MG TD TF 1500 - FRONT LATCH PILLAR
|I appreciate help with timber fit.|
1.Why there are recess holes drilled into outside of the front pillar?
2. Do I need to install any hardware before FRONT QUARTER PANEL will be installed?
3. Do I need to wood screws from outside of front pillar or from inner only ?
4. Do I need to shave UNDER DOOR RAIL to be flush at both junction front and rear pillars?
|Lower junction, do I need wood screws there?|
Blind nuts go in those cavities. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but they are called blind T-nuts I think.
|I correct myself its just called a blind nut. |
Here is a picture of what they look like but this would not be the right size for your application. The blind nuts that Craig Seabrook put on my floorboard have brass nails that hold them in place instead of the barbs you see here.
|Long screws that fasten the latch striker mounting plates from inside the tub screw into the T-nuts (I think that term came up, because some of the old ones had two ears and were then t-shaped). All wood joint edges have to be smooth and blended, and make sure the metal fits properly over. I had to shave a bunch off of one lower main side rail to get the metal to fit. Loooks like a pretty big gap where the verticle rail meets the main side piece. I ran into that somewhere, and using scrap wood filled the gap in. Not sure about the screws- I just winged that part. George|
|Thank you George and Richard, if any of you have images please send it to email@example.com. It appears that I have to shave quite a bit of wood (timer come from Moss) is it typical? Any of you have preference Seabrook or Moss?|
If you don't already have it you need to get
The Complete mg td Restoration Manual by Horst Schach
It covers Tub rebuilding process step by step and many other areas of rebuilding a TD.
The setting of the latch assembly is critical to longevity (safety) of the closing of the door. When you look at the entire door lock/latch assembly, its really quite primative (read ... dangerous) considering the job it has to do, and I continue to be amazed that the MG (Car Co) folks, allowed this to be produced, as it seems like an obvious, simple and inexpensive procedure.
With a preponderance of wood in the tub, with time, the door will settle (sag) and the strength of the latch holding the door closed, will diminish.
Fitting a setup like you have, means that bolts holding the latch assembly, don't have to rely on the grip of a wood screw in the wood frame. This way, you will use metal screws that can be tightened (periodically) over time, maintaining a good degree of mechanical integrity, even as the door sags.
Just be sure that before you complete the trim installation, that you allow for a means to tighten the nuts without having to take everything apart to do so.
The only way this system can be applied, is when the entire door pillar is being constructed from new, as you are now doing.
I sure wish that this system had been originnaly available, as I'm always worried about the door springing open, especially as the chassis flexes when going over bumps.
I just hope that anybody undertaking a full chassis restoration, would take heed to this simple and inexpensive chassis modification, as it is really a modification in favour of safety.
Without your system, means that a secondary method of securing the door has to be used, and that has already been covered by many other forum threads.
|Gordon A Clark|
i am attaching 3 pics of the tub timbers and assembly.
the first shows the 'old' front latch pillar from my basket case '52 TD. top photo shows the outside and the 2 'T' nits installed. these hold the 2BA bolts that attach the backing plate for the door latch. the bottom photo shows the old bolts were rusted into the 'T' nuts and were cut off (shint silvery dots).
don't do like i did when re-assembling the tub and sheet metal - i forgot these very 'T' nuts before i attached the front rocker panel - ooops!! i am using threaded 10-32 inserts to provide a place to attach the latch on the inside (courtesy of dave braun's suggestion).
hope this helps
|2nd pic is a factory pic of the tub assembly from the schach book. look closely and you can see that it appears that screws were also used from the outside to hold the front latch pillar to the lower rail (same as for the hinge pillar). and, everything is flush fitting.|
|and the 3rd pic also from the schach book, pg 25 shows the assembled tub. look close and you can see the screws from the outside and the flush fit abd the place for the 2 'T' nuts.|
hope this helps.
Do you know size of BA bolts that goes into T nuts are they about SAE 1/4. How many wood screws are at the bottom of both front and rear pillars to side wood rail 2 or 3 and what size? Unfortunaly resolution of second and third images are not high enough to make that assesment.
|Didn't think of this till I saw the last photo...when the tub frame was lifted off the jig, how much metal was also attached to the wood?|
2BA are pretty close to a 10-32 thread. you can get 10-32 'T' nuts at a hardware store that has an aisle of assorted nuts/bolts; might be hard to find at Lowes or Home Depot (they would likely have 10-24 size which is a coarser thread). you might also be able to find them in stainless steel (i used these on the rear tank board and on the botom of new seat bases for the seat slides). you should also be able to find 10-32 hex bolts in stainless steel.
what came with my baskets of car parts were hex head about 1-1/4" long, 2 were rusted in place.
i used 2 wood screws (i think #10 sized) countersunk on the bottom of the front latch pillar and i think i only used 1 on the rear hinge pillar. the rear tie bar will also hold the rear hinge pillar in place. i also used some construction adhesive in the joint but make SURE everything is properly aligned or it ain't gonna come apart again !
before you screw together everything together for final assembly FIT THE DOOR in the space on both sides. then, try the sheet metal for fitment, sand some more, fit the doors again, sand some more, try the sheet metal , sand some more,..... you get the idea! you might also consider using some polyurethane or varnish on the wood before everything is finally assembled.
if you haven't found it yet see dave braun's most excellent site - he has something crazy like 589 pics of the tub and wings (www.dbraun99.com/MGTD15470). take a look at http://www.dbraun99.com/MGTD15470/Tub%20and%20Wings/Tub%20Restoration/slides/checking%20fit%20of%20front%20quarter.html as it might answer your question about attachment at the bottom rail.
hope this helps. good luck.
If you’re going to rebuild the wood in your tub, There are a couple of modifications you should consider. These concern replacing the wood screws that were used in the factory wood, with metal screws that don’t actually hold in the wood, but rather at the back of the timber. Here’s one good and recent thread on the mounting of the door latch:- http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&mode=thread&access=&subject=8&source=T&thread=201002271930024081
The same principal also applies to the door hinges. These are modifications that cannot be easily made after the wood has been installed and mounted.
In both cases, a metal screw passes entirely thought the wood to take hold on a threaded metal plate on the back side. An alternative, the above thread discusses “T-Nuts” and these seem to fit the bill perfectly.
The big advantage to this system, is that, as the body sags over the years, the wood screws lessen their grip, and tightening them only enlarges the wood screw hole. A metal screw can be periodically adjusted, maintaining door integrity.
|Gordon A Clark|
| ... oops, meant to put the above comments in the recent thread to Paul Jennings re 1955 TF wood.|
|Gordon A Clark|
This thread was discussed between 27/02/2010 and 02/03/2010
MG TD TF 1500 index
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