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MG TD TF 1500 - Frustrated conking out owner

Just wondering if u can help,my mg tf 1500 goes but all of a sudden it just dies slowly and then I need to get a tow truck.
After leaving it for about an hour or so it starts again. Ie when it cools down. Any hints on what it could be as my mechanic keeps charging me thousands of dollars as he doesn't know what it is.
fuel pump has been replaced, the one oil leak was fixed, then the next one was fixed too even though the car hadn't been used. All in less than a month. Comment was these cars always leak oil.


Frustrated owner
Alyssa ford
Alyssa Ford

Have you replaced the condenser? If so replace again, better yet if you have the original condenser put it back in. You might also remove the adapter in the tank and see if the screen is clogged.
rich40701

Alyssa. Don't conk out as well as the car! It sounds like a fuel vaporisation issue. There are various solutions proposed, which you will find by digging around on the forum - like pulling out the choke whilst starting, even though the engine is hot. Of course it could also be something else like a dodgy coil or poor condenser. My advice is to contact some fellow T types owners in Queensland, and they will no doubt help. I wouldn't be surprised if someone responds accordingly on here. Best of luck.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Condenser, rotor, coil suspect. If the rotor is black or brown, change to a red one. Search archives for bad condensers. If your car does not leak oil, there is no oil left in it! George
George Butz

I had these symptoms and tried all the above suggestions numerous times, all to no avail.
Turned out it was the needle valve in one float chamber sticking shut thus cutting off fuel. I suspect ethanol in the petrol giving the valve seat a slightly sticky coating.
Next time it happens, tap each float chamber (to release the valve) and see if it starts.

David
David Wardell

Alyssa,
It sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem,, It's NOT going to be vapor lock or vaporization while it is running. I would suspect a plugged filter in the carbies, or a needle valve as suggested earlier,, If you were to pull the top of the fuel bowl as sonon as it conks out,, I'll bet it would be empty

Steve
Steve Wincze

Alyssa there has to be a MG Car Club somewhere near you & in my experience their T Type guys would be more than willing to help a damsel in distress. I know a couple of owners in Queensland who I'm sure could put you on the right track. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Alyssa, I think the major problem you have right now is the mechanic. Sounds like he's a little on the slippery side. Contact a member of an MG or British car club, they will be able to offer more help than most. You could have a clogged screen in the fuel tank, but it could also be an electrical problem. There must be some MG people close to you somewhere. JMHO. PJ
Paul161

ALLYSA,
How about a little more info,,, Did the car run OK for a while after the fuel pump was replaced?? OR did the same symptom happened as before ?

The problem could also be the filter in the fuel tank,,,
After sitting for a while, the fuel can seep through a plugged filer and fill the fuel line. But once you start the car, it wants more fuel than what can seep through the plugged filter, and thusly it "conks" out
Steve
Steve Wincze

I have suffered through the conking out due, on separate occasions, to (a) no fuel and (b) no spark. Before throwing parts at it, you must determine which of these is the culprit. After it's conked out and won't start, first test that you have spark 'cause that's the easiest to test - just remove a spark plug lead and see if it has a healthy arc to earth while cranking the engine. If there is spark, squirt some starter fluid (carry an aerosol can to use when this happens) into each carb and see if it starts. If it starts and then dies soon it's probably just burning the starter fluid and not getting a gasoline flow. In that case, the fuel delivery system is the culprit. Once you've isolated the culprit to fuel or spark you can then start isolating the specific problem.

In my cases, one time the no fuel was due to sticking needle valves in the float bowl (tapping the bowl gave temporary relief) and once it was due to a clogged inline fuel filter (removing and tossing the filter gave relief). The no spark problem was due to a failing condenser. Replacement of the condenser (by random luck the replacement condenser seems to be a good one but don't count on that always being the case) gave relief.

Good luck and remember, an equation with N variables has N solutions so just change one thing at a time so you'll know which changed solved the problem. Jud
J. K. Chapin

I agree with the above..until some stops throwing parts at it and starts troubleshooting you will only solve this by luck.


All an engine needs is compression, fuel mixture delivered at the proper ratio and spark at the correct time. That is it...

Regards, tom
tm peterson

Allysa,

Have your "mechanic" get a multimeter and test the coil. That is your likely culprit. The advice to contact with a local MG club is invaluable. They will either be more than glad to help or to direct you to someone who really knows MGs.

As to your problems, fuel vaporization, aka vapour lock, is only a starting problem, typically in hot weather. It is not a problem while driving. If you are driving about 20 - 30 minutes and then the engine begins to conk out and ultimately quit...I have had the same experience on my TD as a result of a dying coil, which is a simple and rather inexpensive fix (replace coil).

Most problems experienced are electrical in nature, rather than fuel in nature.

Let us know what happens.

Regards

Charles Duffy

Yes, these cars leak oil. Most likely from the rear oil seal. You can check this easily yourself by looking at the hole at the bottom of the bell housing where the gearbox mates to the engine. It'll have a split pin dangling from it. If it leaks here it's an engine out job for someone who really knows what he's doing. Most people fit a drip tray to catch it. Check the archives for "drip tray".
To check for any other leak sources you'll need to get under the car and clean it up so you can see where it comes from. Then ask the good people on this forum again armed with a little more info.

I'd follow the advice above and eliminate the fuel problem first. Ride around the block until it stops and unscrew the top off a float chamber to see if it's a lack of fuel. it's easy to screw it back on, if it's empty you probably have a dirty filter in the tank. If it's not follow the advice on electrical issues above.
A R Jones

Alyssa,

Queensland is one BIG place. But there are several MG Car Clubs there. Here's a list of just a few Queensland MG clubs where you may find some help ..

Gold Coast MG Car Club. This is a very big club in Southport. I'm sure if you called the Secretary: Marie Conway-Jones Ph 07 5563 2137, she would direct you to some help.

Another big club (380 members) not far away in Brisbane is the MG Car Club of Queensland. Suggest you contact their clubhouse at 07 3274 1611.

But here's the one you really should be contacting - The Australian T-Series Association in Sunshine Coast. Contact Peter Kerr at 07 54 441552.

I notice you've not responded since your original request. Please let us know how it works out. Love to hear from you.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gord Clark

Check the fuel pickup in the tank. Rust scale from the tank will be puled up against the screen, clogging it and causing the car to sputter and stop. After sitting for a spell, the scale will fall away and allow fuel flow again. Next time it happens, disconnect the fuel line, blow compressed air into the line, reconnect and try to start the car again. If it starts, you've just found your problem. The fuel tank will need to be cleaned.
Steve Simmons

Allysa - See the articles, Fuel Delivery Troubleshooting Guide and Air Leak Troubleshooting in the SU Fuel Pump Articles section of my Homepage at: http://userwebs.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/Fuel_Pumps/sufuelpumparticles.htm Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

Hi. Thank you so much for the info. Wow thanks for that. I just had a read.
The car is still at the mechanic gathering dust so I'll get it home and try those things. I've inherited the car, but mum has restored a vintage car before so she can guide me. It's about time I learnt.

Mum likes horse power under the bonnet but I like it on 4 legs. Lol.

Frustrated owner and horse rider.
Alyssa ford
Alyssa Ford

Alyssa, I am keeping a list of all the TF's known to have come to Australia. It is possible I may have some history on your car. Can I ask the chassis number please? Email mbmagilton AT msn DOT com if you prefer.

Cheers,
Matthew Magilton,
MGCC of Vic.
M Magilton

Matthew Magilton. I'll get the paperwork for the car and send u the info. I believe it was the 21st last one off the production line,
Alyssa Ford

Same issue last summer, now fixed.

Factory spec exhaust installed (replaced 90's Monza POS). Carb heat shield installed. Non-ethanol gasoline installed.

I replaced EVERYTHING else first of course, without success. Coil, condenser, jets, plug wires, etc, etc.
MAndrus

Thank you Alyssa.
Attached a pic showing our club get together to celebrate 60 years of the TF. Mine is the grey one to the left.

Matthew.

M Magilton

Ok plot thickens. Mechanic has discovered oil in the starter motor. That's now getting cleaned out. Umm wonder how that got there.
Alyssa Ford

My car is a Ivory with red interior.
Alyssa Ford

Here u go. The Conker.

Alyssa Ford

And another shot.

Alyssa Ford

A lot to like Alyssa. Door closes beautifully, body piping, bonnet to scuttle alignment & of course the colour. It's Ivory! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Alyssa that is one neat TF. You have got to get those mechanical issues sorted out, if you are located either in Brisbane or the Goldcoast there are very functional MG Clubs at both locations. Google MG Clubs and you will find links to their web pages.
G Evans

alyssa,
oil in the starter motor would not have anything to do with the "conking out",
Steve
Steve Wincze

Oil in the starter is from the "normal" rear seal leak. Don't let your mechanic talk you into fixing it until you are in contact with other owners locally. It will be expensive by what you say of your mechanic. Unless it leaves gallons on your garage floor, leave it alone.
My TF has put oil into the starter for nearly all the 42 years I have owned it, I just put up with it.
As Steve says, it has nothing to do with conking out.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Steve and Ray are right on in the above posts. Most all T-series cars with original rear seals have well oiled starters with no ill effects. Nice looking car.
George Butz

I REALIZE THIS IS OVER SIMPLISTIC, BUT I EXPERIENCD AND FOLLOWED A LOT OF THE PREVIOUS ADVICE ONLY TO BE EMBARASSED, IN THAT THE FUEL IN MY TANK WAS OLD . I TOO WOULD DRIVE FOR A TIME THEN VEHCILE WOULD DIE, AND CAPABLE OF RESTARTING AFTER A PERIOD OF SETTLING DOWN. I KNOW IT SEEMS INPLAUSIBLE TO HAVE BEEN SO SIMPLE, BUT IT WAS AND WAS OVERLOOKED FOR A LONG TIME, A LOT OF FRUSTRAION AND EXPENSE AND EFFORT.
1

Hi. Thanks for all the info and the liking of the car. It gets a lot of attention when I do drive it.
Obviously the starter didn't need cleaning out as per the above comments. Um more money spent.
The saga continues. yes there are clubs around but I decided to go this way. Ie chatting to you all. : )
Alyssa Ford

You don't have to join Alyssa, just pick their brains. They'd love that.. they're blokes after all. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Just trying to figure out the chassis number of your car Alyssa. 21st from last would be HDE23/10080 with engine number XPEG/3877? This info appears on the I.D. plate near the battery on the passenger side. I have attached a pic showing my I.D. plate.

Matthew.

M Magilton

Here you go Matthew

Alyssa Ford

Thank you Alyssa, that's great.
P&R Williams sold the car new to B. G. Toohey on the 14th of June 1955 when the car was Ivory with red upholstery. Owned by J. Campion in the 1970's and Robert Ingham in the 1990's and 2000's. Let me know if I missed anyone please (I keep indexes of past owners).

Cheers,
Matthew.
M Magilton

Can I ask a question or two ?.

When does it actually "conk out" - when you are moving, or stopped in traffic/at lights ?.

Modern fuel vapourises at 70 degrees celcius - in a TF the under bonnet temperatures rise rapidly when the car stops moving, and the fuel can easily boil in the carburettors & you will "conk out".

Remember the water in the engine is running at about 80-90 degrees, the exhaust manifold likely over 175 degrees, so it's a hostile environment for modern petrol.

You may be able to stop it conking out by pulling the choke on until the traffic allows you to move again. I have used this technique a couple of times & it does work, but don't depend on it every time.

If you think you will be stopped in traffic for anything longer than a minute, you need to pull off the road and open the carb side bonnet & let all that hot air out.

This problem is difficult to overcome, but tuning the car for modern fuel (91 octane, not 95 or 98) will help & but understanding the problem is the first step.

Tony Slattery
Black Mountain
Queensland
A L SLATTERY

Matthew. I get Mum to have s look again. She has all the history on the car, but she will check so ur records are up to date.
Tony mum tried both. It does conk out at the lights and has also done on the highway. She will check the coil again. I did leave everyone's edited comments with the mechanic.
Alyssa Ford

Alyssa, I can see that you really want to diagnose your problems here, but it is hard at long range. It seems from what we've read that your mechanic has little idea of the problems of cars of this vintage - few people under 60 or so do. I know one who recoiled in horror at the idea of setting the idle on an SU.

I suggest that you find from a local club - after all, many of its members must have read about your problems here - the address of a mechanic who does understand vintage cars, and pass the problem to him or her. This is not to denigrate your mechanic, just to recognise that some things require a lot of background knowledge and experience to sort out.

The best of luck, and do please keep us informed of progress.

David
David Provan

Matthew - an update. In 1984 Alan Blevins from Hawks Nest bought it and then sold it to Ingham. And then mum was the next owner.

Thanks David Provan. I know I can go to the club but sometimes you just got to venture out of the square. : ).

Plus this way I've leant a lot.
Alyssa Ford

Thank you Alyssa.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Alyssa,
I can recommend the Classis Car Clinic at Biggera Waters - they have people there who understand and work on British Classic Cars every day & their rates are quite reasonable. It's a bit of a drive to get there, but worth the effort.

The manager is a real Englishman with years of enthusiasm for MG's & the business owner also owns a few MG's so they know their stuff. Tell them I sent you.

Keep at it - you will be happy to drive the car again one day soon - especially after the hot weather has passed.

Cheers

Tony
A L SLATTERY

This thread was discussed between 26/01/2016 and 31/01/2016

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