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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Fuel

What kind of gasoline is preferable for use in TD?
P Bainbridge

almost anything that is flammable...fuels with ethanol will eventually deteriorate any rubber materials in the fuel system. in a normally aspirated XPAG there is no need for a higher octane than regular. no E85. regards, tom
tom peterson

"fuels with ethanol will eventually deteriorate any rubber materials in the fuel system"
This may be true, but I have not seen any but the oldest fuel pump diaphragms show any sign of deterioration, which could be nothing more than old age. Any of the new pumps sold by Burlen Fuel Systems and all of the pumps that I restore use diaphragms that are ethanol resistant. I would also imagine that any rubber parts sold by the major suppliers (Moss, Abingdon, etc.) would be ethanol resistant. Anyone purchasing hoses for use in the fuel system should specify that they are compatible with ethanol (the local NAPA store that I use not only supply ethanol compatible tubing for fuel systems, they also only sell tubing that is specified for fuel injection. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Dont forget that when our MGs were designed and assembled, the common fuel in England was about 72 octane, or in that neighborhood. Unless the engine has been significantly modified, dont bother with higher octane as Tom mentioned.
Jim Merz

Dave-
"I would also imagine that any rubber parts sold by the major suppliers (Moss, Abingdon, etc.) would be ethanol resistant. "

Please send me whatever you are smoking. Their rubber stuff isn't even resistant to air!

Otherwise, I agree completely - I have seen no trouble from ethanol. There was some difficulty with fuel late 80's - early 90's, but it was something else.

FRM
FR Millmore

Great. Just the info I needed.
P Bainbridge

Fletcher,

"Please send me whatever you are smoking. Their rubber stuff isn't even resistant to air!"

LOL - not much since I gave up my pipe many years ago.

Yes, the rubber parts provided by the major suppliers hasn't been stellar stuff for many, many years, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt for anything to do with fuel - perhaps that is being too generous. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

I tend to run high octane in both my MGA and the TF as I'm convinced that the engine runs cooler, and I've never had a vapor-lock! The additional expense is not a great factor considering the amount of fuel we actually use in one of these car over a year.
David Werblow

David -
Your engine will not run any cooler, unless it is badly tuned, and in the past the additives used for high octane (mostly lead) tended to foul plugs and build deposits in the engine, on engines that were running cool enough and slow enough to not need high octane. Not sure what happens with today's fuels, but there is certainly no advantage to using overly high octane fuel.

EXCEPT- If you take advantage of the octane by tuning - mostly timing advance, and/or mods - mostly compression increase, then you can gain both power and economy for your fuel $$$. Of course, that's why we developed high octane fuel!

FRM
FR Millmore

not possible for high octane to have an effect on the operating temps or the operation in general of the standard, properly tuned xpag. $$$ better spent else where.regards, tom
tom peterson

Doesn't higher octane fule stay fresh longer? If I only use a tank or 2 a year, isnt it better keep higher octane fule in it?


.
Tom Going

Gents,

Do not forget Sta-bil marine version if you use ethanol contaminated gas. It is well recognized here in Florida where we have lots of boats, humidity, and temperature changes, that E-10 fuel absorbs water like a sponge. Sta-bil also is supposed to keep fuel fresh during storage. Seems to work as some dry storage marinas now recommend it to all customers if the boat is going into storage for more than a few days.


Jim Haskins

1953 MG TD
J. M. Haskins

"not possible for high octane to have an effect on the operating temps or the operation in general of the standard, properly tuned xpag. $$$ better spent else where.regards, tom"
The reason for running higher octane fuel in the state of Oregon has little to do with the higher octane. It has much to do with the fact that state law prohibits the use of non-ethanol fuel being used on the state's highways unless it is at least 91 octane. So, if you choose to run non-ethanol in Oregon it must be Premium which is generally 92 octane. I'm not sure about other states laws but I'm very familiar with Oregon's requirements because of my job. You will pay handsomely for the privilege of running non-ethanol in Oregon. Nearly $1.00 extra per gallon, largely due to the fact that it must be trucked into the state from Washington.
Kirk Trigg

I tried Marine Sta-Bil when it first came out in the MGB, as it never gets driven in the winter months and the results were very positive. The gas smelled as fresh in the Spring as if I just pumped it in and have found no deterioration of any rubber parts in the fuel system. The car runs great when first fired up and I use any fuel that's available, usually 87 octane. I now use it in a couple tractors and the motor home. Outside rubber, that's another story, garbage, no other word for it. The rubbers at the base of the wifes 72B show car windshield pillars are shot! Their only 4 years old and full of cracks! I'd replace them if it wasn't such a job pulling the windshield. PJ
P Jennings

Don't forget to add a lead additive each time you fill the tank. Today's fuels are unleaded and the TD needs the lead to protect the valves (so I am told). You can buy at any auto parts store.
Enjoy---
Bill
W Chandler

I got my information from Barney Gaylord a few years back at a NAMGAR national when I asked him about fuel for the MGA. His answer, "Use the highest octane available."
David Werblow

I have used marine Sta-Bil for years in outboards, mowers and my TD and have never had a problem with it. Just a note that the shelf life of Sta-Bil is two years according to the manufacturer. Over two years it starts to be less effective.

Jim
Jim Neel TD28423

the question about the 1250 XPAG..i don't know barney gaylord, or MGA engines, but i know the 1250 XPAG in the MG TD. it does not need and, when normally aspirated and properly tuned, it cannot possibly reap ANY benefit from a fuel of higher octane than regular.
if the regular fuel with ethanol is treated with sta-bil, it will remain fresh as long or longer than untreated premium that has not been treated with sta-bil.
in regard to lead additive..this is also NOT necessary..this wives tale has been put to rest several times over the past 3 decades since the lead was removed..but some how reappears on hobbyist websites. if you do some research of REPUTABLE motoring publications you will find the results of testing done over the years.
my testimonial for sta-bil came about as the result of a family tragedy that resulted in a boat with 30 gallons of ethanol fuel being in unheated storage for 6 YEARS. i had used the prescribed amount of sta-bil in the fuel before i put the boat in for winter storage. 6 years later i pull the boat out expecting a tank full of gunk..instead it smelled fresh, i syphoned some into a clear container..it looked fresh..so i hooked up two fuel filters in parallel and fired her up. she started right up..so i dropped her in the water and skied all afternoon on that tank. the boat is still in regular use 5 years later. regards, tom
tom peterson

All due respect to Barney, but the excess octane myth is poppycock, as I've been hearing from experienced people since the mid 1950s. There is or was an apparent advantage to "premium" gas, but it was due to better additive packages for stability, detergency, cold starting etc., NOT the octane. As I've said before, there were big problems in the late 80s-early 90s, but it was not octane and not ethanol. I have a lot of things sitting around here with fuel up to 5 years old - not even StaBil - which start and run perfectly every random start. And I have seen very few cases of seat recession, always on cars with much evidence of bad maintenance, bad tappet clearance, overheating, etc.

Forget all of it and drive!

FRM

FRM
FR Millmore

I always understood that IN THEORY surplus octane rating can result in a better combustion.

The higher the octane rating the more the fuel will resist self-igniting as a result of high pressure and temperature.

When fuel is ignited by the spark, not all the fuel will burn immediately. There is unburned fuel 'lurking at the cylinderwall' in an enviroment where the temperature and pressure is rising rapidly because of the combustion that started near the sparkplug.
If that unburned fuel has a low octane rating there is a risk that the fuel will self-ignite, making the combustion ever so slightly less controlled.
With surplus octane this self-igniting-during-combustion won't take place with a better combustion, with longer expansion and lower temperatures in the combustion area as a result.

A standard XPAG has a very low compression ratio because of the lousy 1950's 'pool petrol', but how many engines have a standard cylinderhead and block height now? In extreme cases a high octane fuel might be neccesary to prevent pinking.

So far for theory, in practise FRM is right in saying forget it all and drive!
Willem vd Veer

Kirk Trigg
Thank you for confirming what I thought to be true in Oregon. For that reason I always use permium. Shell V power, actually. The gas monkeys working at the stations had not been able to confirm this when I have asked.
Hard to believe that Oregon is the only state where this is the case. Is this the standard practice in the Western states?

Tom
'54 TF
Ashland, OR
Tom Norby

Willem is correct, of course, but all that stuff is already factored in, and our "low octane" is still far better than what the engines were built for, allowing a decent margin fo a good bit of head skimming etc.

Tom, and Kirk - that is politics, not physics or engine dynamics. If you quit worrying about the non issue of ethanol, then there is again NO reason to use the higher priced extortion. Bad enough that the ethanol cuts mileage, and is therefore an effective fuel tax increase - and profit maker for Govt and Oil; no reason to give then even more $$ for no benefit. As far as I know, Oregon and New Jersey are the "most stupid gas station" states. Must be something about balance!

FRM
FR Millmore

Given the drought problem has devastated Corn crops and unless there is something else other than corn that is readily available for the manufacture of ethanol I have a feeling that this problem might be self correcting in the near future.
Regards
Rod
Rod Murray 54TF 3006

Gents,

Sorry about hi-jacking the thread. Over the years I have read several reports on the production of ethanol. In summary from memory it goes something like this.

Truck seed to farm (diesel)
Plow and disc (diesel)
Plant (diesel)
Herbicide & Pesticide (Contain hydrocarbons)
Application of above (diesel)
Harvest (diesel)
Truck to refinery (diesel)
Fermentation (electricity from Hydrocarbons)
Distillation (More hydrocarbons)
Truck to distribution (diesel)
Truck to retail (diesel)

In the end the "experts" can not agree if there is really a net gain in energy available and we have not even addressed what is happening to the cost of my tacos.

Regards,

Jim Haskins
J. M. Haskins

Tom,
From your comment above, I believe that you may still have a mistaken idea about the Premium/Non-Ethanol issue in Oregon. Almost all of the branded stations will not have non-ethanol fuel available. Shell V-Power is almost certainly 92 octane E10(ie. 10% ethanol) premium. (Look for the E10 decal on the pump face.) You will have to search for non-ethanol premium if that is what you choose to burn. The most likely suppliers are Mom and Pop type stations or marinas. Or I can give you the state cell number for one of my fellow weights and measure officials in Medford off list. He will be able to tell you who carries non-ethanol premium in your area.

FRM "Tom, and Kirk - that is politics, not physics or engine dynamics". You'll get no argument from me about that statement.
"As far as I know, Oregon and New Jersey are the "most stupid gas station" states. This statement I believe probably references the fact that Oregon and New Jersey (I believe) are the only two "No self service states". I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly in my younger days that not being allowed to pump your own gas is a waste of time and stupid. Now that I spend a good portion of my year testing gas stations (read that-Pumping gas) in the Oregon rain, I'm quite happy to let somebody else stand out in the rain and pump my fuel on my days off!

Cheers,

Kirk
Kirk Trigg

BTW, for those of you that are in love with 10% ethanol in your gas, here is an article that was forwarded to me today.
http://www.capitalpress.com/content/mp-ethanol-dismissal-082112

Hope this link works right...

Kirk
Kirk Trigg

I try not to get political on this web site, but I strongly recommend NOT buying alcohol enriched fuel. We have a serious feed shortage and prices of corn are skyrocketing. The Government is buying pork, beef and chicken here in the US to assist farmers/ranchers, but by next year, when the current shortage really hits home, food prices are going to skyrocket. By eliminating the use of Alcohol, farmers/ranchers would have nearly all the feed they currently need to product food.

In Wisconsin, premium is mostly without alcohol. It costs me 10 to 20 cents more per gallon, that is around 1 to 2 dollars more per tank for the TD and a bit more for the MGB. I get more miles to the gallon not running alcohol so it comes close to covering the added cost.

It is also my way of protesting using food for fuel.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48751567
Bruce Cunha

Jim H-
You need to add a few more things not quite covered - huge quantities of synthetic fertilizer required for the needed corn yields in a brain dead monocrop agriculture, the GMO corn itself, which I believe WILL be the end of us, and certainly of the natural ecosystem. The reports I have seen are on the negative benefit side mostly, with a few struggling to show a bit of positive - guess who writes those.
I am touchy about this now, since they have this year planted corn on the field above my house, eliminating the bird/butterfly/snake/bug/deer/turkey/hawk/owl/bear habitat, and the place I have been walking and picking wild berries and nursing native lilies since 1975 - and the whole thing drains right through the center of my no chemicals ever garden and yard.

All of this to buy votes but do damn all else useful.

Kirk-
Hey, in the rest of the world we actually put roofs over gas stations! It is another sinecure for the gas station workers alliance and three worrywarts. Guess what- In my entire life, including a million miles in a big truck, I have yet to see a gas station blow up!

I did not see anybody say they were in love with ethanol, but I could be persuaded if pickling lawyers and lobbyists in it became the rage.

FRM
FR Millmore

Question - Does premium fuel vaporize at a lower temp than regular? Or another way of putting it, is there a difference in there respective vapor pressures??? If so would one tend to be more problamatic when sitting in traffic on a hot day?

Thanks,
Jim
James Budrow

The closest station to me is a Conoco and sells nothing but non ethanol gas. The next closest station to me has pumps with two hoses where you can choose either with or without. PJ




P Jennings

FRM
The stations in the Pacific northwest are also generally covered. The one notable exception is the station in Depoe Bay that lost its roof last spring in a rather average wind storm. It generally rains down, frequently rains sideways, and on occasion it even rains up! I agree with you as to your pickling recipe...
Kirk Trigg

FRM, i did not know you farmed. we have something in common. i grew up on a farm and still have two brothers and a son who farm. they are are using far LESS chemicals than ever. in regard to your comment "reports you have seen".. i guess being a farmer yourself you would be doing more reading than me as i am away from the farm, but have family making their living at it. i'd appreciate links and source info to the reports you are reading. my brothers and son may find them informative. being a farmer yourself it seems a bit harsh to refer to your occupation as "brain dead". give yourself a break.
i hope your farm is getting enough rain this year. we're a bit dry. regards, tom
tom peterson

James-
Vapor pressure is the most important controlled factor in fuel, and is tailored to weather, so fuel is different at different seasons and locations. The engine requirements are pretty constant, so grade of fuel (by octane rating) is not a factor for this issue. What WILL get you is using winter blend fuel in hot weather. A good 90 degree day in early spring causes havoc with cars - I learned a whole lot about this one year when I had about 20 people call or show up over a two day hot spell in late Mar/early April with bizarre flooding/vapor lock/starvation/poor running issues. Since people frequently fill the cars in late fall (with winter blend) and store, then get them out on a nice warm spring day, the problem is not rare, but also not usually that extreme. Buying gas at low volume stations can also get you a tank of winter blend well after the refinery change dates.

Kirk -I was actually surprised at how many stations did not have roofs last time I was out there, as I waited for somebody to come put gas in my car. My conclusion was that they had decided to make folks suffer for their jobs!

Tom- Not a farmer myself, but lifelong student and practitioner of true organic gardening/farming, from Sir Albert Howard on. And a resident of Earth, which I care deeply for. I grew up watching the eastern PA Mennonite farmers work their farms with horses, as did my neighbor - who at about age 80 taught me how to build stone walls and dams by yourself, without mortar - and how to learn your task and your resources.

"being a farmer yourself it seems a bit harsh to refer to your occupation as "brain dead".
The reference is not to being a farmer, a most subtle, beautiful, and honourable occupation,, but to monoculture with GMO and chemicals, which is a horrible scam that IS robbing and killing people worldwide, and WILL destroy the earth. Farmers overall do not gain from this crap, but Agribusiness sure does. I used to scream and cry as I drove my big truck across Indiana and Illinois, for the sake of the raped and poisoned Earth - our Mother - and Her abused children - the scammed farmers. I watched the small farms of NY and PA and most of Ohio disappear, our fresh produce and meat production diverted to BigAg factories in the southwest desert - another rape of land and water and lives, and please tell me why we import garlic from China? Email me and we can have a discussion and I will try to find some written stuff that might help people out. There is at least one guy I know about who has one or more books on successful and very profitable balanced multiuse farming in today's market, but the name escapes me just now. But since farming is still the same as it has been for thousands of years - once you remove the Agrichemibanking - the classic books still apply. Monsanto and its bitches are the ultimate Evil; if you are up on your Vonnegut, GMO is our real Ice-9.

Has been a very strange year for weather, and global warming is no joke or myth. Best summer ever for people, but a bit dry here, much better than most of the country. The very early warmth followed by a vicious freeze resulted in my first blueberry failure in 36 years, and pretty well destroyed the entire (est at 90-95% loss) fruit crops from the Michigan sour cherries all the way through the NY apple belt, including all the cultivated and feral fruit around here. A few grape growers right on the lakeshores might get some.

FRM
FR Millmore

I'm fortunate to have a local gasoline station that sells alcohol free gasoline. However, when I'm unable to buy alcohol free gas, either for my boat or TD, I use Startron (available at Auto Zone, NAPA and Walmart) as well as marine Stabil.

I've used the aforementioned in my boat for years and I've never had any issues due to alcohol in the gas.

Fuel lines that are impervious to alcohol deterioration is available at NAPA. If you're driving your car regularly you shouldn't have an issue. Sitting for months at a time is where the problems start.
R C Flowers

This thread was discussed between 18/08/2012 and 24/08/2012

MG TD TF 1500 index

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