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MG TD TF 1500 - Help no oil pressure

I've been spinning the engine on the starter with the plugs out and the help of jump leads to me Mazda. No oil pressure!! Spun the engine a number of times now for 2 mins a time and still no luck. Had to stop each time as the starter was getting hot.

I fitted a spin on filter. It came with a Fram PH966B filter but I fitted the K&N equivalent HP1002 as Farm have a bad press. No pressure.

I thought maybe I got the wrong K&N filter so I put the Fram on. Can't get the Fram to seal but it did pump half a litre of oil on to the floor so the pump must be primed. They're right about Fram!

Now going to put the original filter back on tomorrow as I can't seem to get the oil past either of the canister filters.

Have I fitted the spin on incorrectly? Seems to me it only goes on one way. You take the original boss and plate off and fit the seal and new boss and just spin them on right? Do you need to put the old plate back on before fitting the filter base? Can't see how it fits.

Is there a non return valve in the K&N filter stopping oil going thru?

Any suggestions would be gratefully accepted right now!

Thanks AJ
A R Jones

An anti-drainback valve is nothing more than a flap that keeps the filter full when mounted other than vertical-up, I don't see how it could block oil flow.

Since it pumped oil on the floor and the flow of oil is from the outside-in, perhaps something is blocking the center tube.
JE Carroll

Are you getting oil to the rocker area? Maybe your gauge is bad if that's all your looking at. It's pretty hard to block flow thru or from the filter, and you're seeing oil there at pressure.
A W Parker

Not getting oil to the rocker. My next task was to disconnect the pipe from the gauge to see if there was any oil coming out but the oil "flood" from the Fram stopped me doing that.

The Fram was supplied with the adapter but I fitted the K&N first as I read somewhere that it was a better filter than the Fram. When I couldn't get pressure with the K&N I changed it for the Fram. When I removed the K&N it only had in it the oil I poured in before screwing it on, about half full. It didn't seem as though the pump had primed. It was only when I fitted the Fram that it started to pump the oil out on to the floor!
AJ
A R Jones

Check out this document, scroll down near the bottom to the discussion of start-up.

http://mg-tabc.org/techn-up/tappets.htm

I always pack the oil pump with Vaseline (petroleum jelly, I forget what the Brits call it) as stated in the document to help it prime.

Good luck!
David Littlefield

It was packed with Vaseline and I think it did prime, just didn't get to the galleries. More I think about it I feel I have the wrong filter and it's stopping the oil from getting into the galleries. Will go back to old style filter tomorrow.

AJ
A R Jones

Hello AJ. From your description I understand that you have the late style oil pump. You do not need either the old boss nor the plate that sealed the end of the oil filter with the new spin on style adapter. Check to make sure that the oil passage way drilled in the boss is open all the way through? Is the flange of the boss below the surface of the spin on adapter plate? If it isn't this will prevent some filters from fully seating. Also did you happen to put the gasket that goes between the oil pump body and the block on upside down? That would block the oil passage from the pump to the oil galley.

Butch Taras
R Taras

Is this a rebuild on the engine? If so, did you put the gasket in where the pickup attaches to the pan? If not, you can get an air leak.
Bruce Cunha

Sorted. I put the standard out of a "factory filter" in and the pressure went right up. Hope I didn't do any damage cranking it on the starter for too long! The engine builder tells me he lubricated all the bearings very well when he rebuilt it so I shouldn't have a problem.

The moral is - be careful which filter you use cos I think the K&N filter was the source of the problem.

A
A R Jones

AJ
You need a spin on filter with a non-return valve. I have successfully used Halfords HOF 202 and Unipart GFE2 both readily available.
R.E. Miller

AJ, since you dumped a bunch of oil on the floor, is it possible the gasket from the old spin on is stuck on the oil filter housing. Giving you two o-rings for the price of one?
Keith Yarbrough(TD1558)

No Keith, There was only one gasket in there. I solved the filter problem by resorting back to the original filter design. I will revisit this issue again in the future and take Roy's advice. I now have the engine running which is my current objective.

However, I now have a serious leak from the oil pump cover gasket. I know that the WSM says there isn't supposed to be a gasket there but my engine builder decided to insert one anyway.

It now leaks so I have to take the oil pump off. How to do this with the engine in the car??

AJ
A R Jones

No gasket is required or desired between the pump cover and pump body - remove it. The cover can be removed with the engine and pump in plce. When the cover is off, be sure it is flat - it is easy to re-surface it now. There are short and long bolts; make sure they go back correctly. Pack the gears with Vaseline to ensure prime.

Tom Lange
Bar Harbor, Maine
t lange

A gasket under the end plate of a gear pump, if it's not designed for it, is likely to severely reduce it's efficiency. Tom's advice is best. I hope your engine builder didn't do other such strange things.
A W Parker

Hello AJ. Like Tom said there should be no gasket between the pump cover and body. Paper gaskets vary in thickness and their final compressed thickness varies with the torque applied to the bolts. You have a tolerance of .0015 to .003 on the end float of the gears to the end of the pump body and cover. If you get much over this clearance you start loosing oil pressure. While you have the cover off double check the clearance of the gears to the body to make sure that the engine builder didn't set the gears to compensate for the gasket thickness. If he did that would jam the gears and strip the gear at the end of the pump shaft where it meshes with the cam shaft gear.
The cover can easily removed by just undoing the bolts. If necesary the pump can be removed by undoing the front motor mount, engine stay and radiator hose then jacking the left hand side of the motor up.
R Taras

Thanks for all your comments. I've taken a quick look at removing the oil pump on my TF so I can remove the gasket on the cover.

It seems to me there isn't enough clearance between the bell housing and the transmission tunnel to be able to jack the engine up high enough to allow the oil pump to clear the chassis member.

Am I mistaken here? Does the bulkhead footplate and transmission tunnel need to come off to allow the engine to be jacked up higher?

AJ
A R Jones

This thread was discussed between 01/12/2011 and 05/12/2011

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