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MG TD TF 1500 - Idnition/fuel level warning light.

I have just purchased and instaled both the petrol and ignition warning lights for my 1950 TD. I have 95% completed a full restoration. The lamps were purchased from a local supplier here in Sydney and they come from Moss Motors for the box states "Classic Gold authentic reproduction" which I believe ia a Moss Motors product. Cost each were A$65.00. They do not have any isulation wrapped around the resistance windings and you cannot install them in the proper way with the spring and the "Dee" clip. On trying to assemble them they both broke. I am exterely disappointed with these lights they are absolute rubbish and not cheap.
My question is to warn others about this product and to ask as to what is the alternative to installing the light without the resistance wires for I have two original lights (no resistance wires) which I can use.

Any help appreciated for a frustrated and annoyed member.

John Walton

Bud has an excellent article on regarding the installation of alternative resistors to your original lights. hope this is of some help.
R Browne

Thanks Rob,
It answers my concerns except no one can answer re the rubbish of the products I purchased.
John Walton

Hi John. I share your concern over the all to many crappy products Moss sells. I have the same two VERY expensive Classic Gold warning lights that you are less than impressed with & they were also purchased from the same source here in Oz. If I have to, I plan to install a resistor in series with the lights to prevent the higher current melting the green & red lenses. I took some considerable care to prevent the flimsy, unprotected resistance winding from breaking & I MAY have been successful, but I wont know until I install & power up the dash. The good news is you're nearer the end than the beginning! Cheers mate.
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

You should consider using LED lamps; they will run cooler and avoid overheating issues.
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff, it's not that simple. Some of us like to keep the OEM configuration. I don't know where you can find a 12v green LED that will fit into the OEM socket. Do you? Bud
Bud Krueger

Absolutely. Pretty much any fitting any color - but you don't need a colored LED just go with white, the OEM bulbs were white. I have all LEDs in my dash because they are easier to see (brighter) and run cooler.
Geoffrey M Baker

You can also try

This site has a wide range of LED Edison base bulbs that should fit most dash applications. You can also get BA7s and BA9s to fit our dash bulb holders, with slight modifications. For some reason superbrightleds are carrying few Edison based bulbs now.
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff, I don't have a proper wiring loom or dash panel so don't know if my comment will be relevant or not for dealing with bulb common/ground connection. Will or will not the issue of LED polarity come into play? There is plenty of discussion in the archives about that topic so don;t want to re-raise that here. I don't see on the superbrightleds web site any mention of polarity. I assume since they talk about fitting 1000s of cars, they are targeted for the modern negative ground systems.
R Biallas

Probably worth a try with the ledlight e10. You'd probably want to try a green LED. White LEDs don't have the same spectral output as incandescent bulbs. Bud
Bud Krueger

I ruined one Moss light trying to install it in situ. But if you just want function rather than being authentic you can pick up the same type of light, in various colors, at any good hardware store in the auto section or Napa, etc. for about $3 bucks each!
efh Haskell

Randy, some but not all low power LEDs are not polarity specific. You would need to verify this yourself before buying.
Geoffrey M Baker

SVC sell coil wound lights.
Declan Burns

Thank you Declan.
John Walton

Nice find, Declan, I didn't think you could still buy these.
Geoffrey M Baker

Randy, I don't want to hijack this thread but I should have been more specific. There are no hard and fast rules about LEDs and polarity, but ... IN GENERAL...
low power, low output LEDs tend to be nonpolar and can work with either system. This would include most LEDs for dash applications (and I think all the lights on the page
LED headlamps and taillamps are almost all polarity specific because they are high power and require a constant current driver.
It is of course relatively easy to wire any led bulb to work with either negative or positive ground, you must simply insulate the circuit. However, shorting would be a danger, especially for headlights.
If a LED is built to fit a modern fitting (cars since the 80s, wedge and bus fittings etc), it will likely be for negative ground.
I ran LED taillamps on a positive ground car for years without any difficulty. When I converted to negative ground (for entirely different reasons) it simply meant switching one wire.
LEDs are safer (run cooler) last longer and are in many cases brighter than OEM bulbs, and with older looms and wiring are good insurance.
On the superbrightleds site, pick any bulb and go to specifications and it will say if it is polarity specific or not.
Finally, a last note, LEDs come in a bewildering array of sizes, so be wary of height - many LEDs are longer than the originals, especially the ones that pack a lot of LEDs in a tower configuration.

Geoffrey M Baker

I have bought LED lighting from this location - he will provide either positive or negative ground lights.

My TF is still positive ground and the lights work well.

Thanks Geoffrey for the good summary. Also nice to have it embedded in the discussion. (Hadn't thought to check TTalk to see if there was a LED Summary/WikiPage on the subject. I will have to remember to have the mindset of using TTalk as our MG WikiPages!)
R Biallas

Just search on LEDs and you'll find plenty of (often conflicting) info. There is one on how I built high power tail lights somewhere...
Geoffrey M Baker

Made my running/turn lights using these.
Cree led's seem to usually be much brighter. Went through a number of different types that were not bright enough. They are polarity sensitive.
D mckellar

Not to knock yours D McKellar, but my experience with those plug in types is that they are bright enough in the center but lousy on the sides. You want something that casts a pattern of 180 degrees and most of those type maybe do 100 degrees.
If you go through the archives you'll find a thread where I explained how to build your own brake.turn.running lamps using 3 high power leds on a single die and two constant current drivers. They can be wired for either positive or negative ground.
Geoffrey M Baker

Re activating my problem of the inferior, high cost dash warning lights supplied by a local source via Moss Motors.
I used my original lights combined with a 75ohm 25 watt resistor. They work great the total cost for the two lights (ignition and low level fuel indicating lights) $6.00.
John Walton

Apologies ...the resistor was a 75 ohm 2 watt (NOT a 25 watt).
John Walton

I agree, in general the pre-made, plug in (1157) kind are mostly junk. Like this one:

and this one:

CREE are a different beast altogether, from my experiences. The above loser's in this post are dimmer straight on than the 1157 CREE's (above post) at 100*+ angle. I cannot emphasize how much brighter the CREE plug-ins are from the other.
D mckellar

D, I am familiar with CREE. I don't use them because currently, I have been unable to find red or orange CREE led dies. One can use white of course, and they are quite bright, but much of the light is then lost passing through the lens.
Instead I used Indus Endor Star 3-up led dies in red, which put out a LOT of light in a good pattern; they are brighter than standard bulbs both from the back and radially on the side, by a considerable margin (I posted pictures comparing, in a long past posting, which you can probably find in the archives).
Research on the CREE model indicates maybe 300 lumen (it's often very hard to find good data because on ebay and most sites, they peddle all kinds of nonsense to avoid admitting many of these bulbs are lower than incandescent!), but that's lumen in all spectra, and you want only red or orange.
The ones I built put out 270 lumen in the red spectrum alone, all of it passing through the lens.
I strongly suspect mine are considerably brighter still.
I'm waiting for the next generation. Cree makes some of them - but the really bright ones (over 1000 lumen) are still white, not color LEDs. So I'll hold out until they get brighter color ones.
Of course, with added lumen, heat becomes more and more of an issue. The ultra power ones on the market MUST have fan cooling, they generate too much heat to dissipate via a heat sink.
At any rate, I'll say that I have no doubt your CREE lights are much better than 99% of the junk on ebay!
Geoffrey M Baker

This thread was discussed between 10/01/2016 and 14/01/2016

MG TD TF 1500 index

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