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MG TD TF 1500 - Improperly identified year on registration

I have a 1952 TD that is a numbers matching car BUT the numbers are clearly shown as the car being manufactured in Dec 1950. HOWEVER, the car has been registered as a 1952 for as long as I can tell. It is my understanding that the dealerships back in the 50's often registered the cars for the year that they were sold, NOT the actual year of manufacture. Is there any place that I can contact to get "official" documentation to start the process with the Government Motor Vehicle Registration to have the title changed. For some reason, they just don't want to take my word for it LOL.
CR Drolet

CR,
Will they allow it to be registered as a '52??? If so, it might be better to just let it be registered as a 52,,, sometimes when you try to make a Government Office understand "reality", it just makes matters worse!! Kind of like poking a hornets nest,,,,,,
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SPW
Steve Wincze

I agree...however, a Heritage Certificate might be the first place to start....
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

Not sure what you will run into in "The Great White North" ...but you are not alone, many of us have tittles that do not reflect the actual year the car was built. (Mine is "55" ...built Oct 54).
Get the Heritage Certificate (for if/when you sell it)... but not sure you won't open a real can of worms trying to "change" it!
I went through hell trying to get Ohio to change my tittle ...somewhere along the way a "/" got changed to a "1". Armed with BMHT cert., every book I could find showing production run numbers that there was never a vin# built as shown on the tittle, I made numerous trips to the tittle office with no luck.
Then, after many trips, the clerk told me if I could bring her the VIN Plate from the car she could fix it! I wasn't about to tell her they sell blank ones! ;-) !!! That was it ..."7427" became "7427" instead of "17427".
Moral: It may just depend on "whom" is standing at the counter that day. (at least in Ohio)
FYI: Ohio has some of the dumbest BMV laws ever!
You have to sign a statement as "proof" of insurance here. I was in line one day and watched a guy be denied regestration because he told the clerk he had none. He got right back in line (same clerk) and next time through he said "yes I have insurance" and signed the paper ans she gave him his plates. There was only 3 of us in there that day! Go figure!
David Sheward

I bet the DMV loved you David. I can just hear the conversations after you left. This guy wants to have his car registration changed to show the date it was built. I has been registered as a 1955 from it's first date of sale, but he is insisting we change it to 1954.

If that is not a sign of dedication. Mine is a 1950 (nov) and has a 1951 in the title. I just have the paperwork to show anyone that it really was made in 1950.
Bruce Cunha

Oh no ...I didn't even "go there" (to change year) ...I was just trying to get the propper vin# on the title! They couldn't have laughed any harder than I did on the way out of there.
David Sheward

Be happy you don't have to deal with the California DMV (Department of Many Visits). It's out of control, that's all I can say.
Mike
Mike Hart (52 TD 16378)

Perhaps I was lucky, but Washington State has an inspection program to confirm that any car purchased from out of state and what they are purported to be. Our TD had been imported many years before I purchased it (perhaps from a time prior to the inspection system currently in effect) and the Vin number on the title was an incorrect mix of the car number and the body number. I talked to the people at the State Patrol office explaining the situation and asking if there was someway that the number on the title could be corrected. They told me to bring in any supporting documentation, along with the car and one of the inspectors would determine if it could be changed. I went in, armed with the WSM and the T Series Handbook form the New England MG 'T' Register (pages all marked ahead of time), showed the information to the inspector, showed him where the Vin number had been derived from, showed him the correct Car Number on the makers plate and on the left front dumb iron. He laughed and told me that back in the 50, just about any number on the car was used for the vin on a title, and that I was lucky they haden't used the tire size number, then wrote a memo to the DMV stating what the correct vin should be and directing them to change it - problem solved (with a new title fee). Oh yes, I offered to let the inspector copy the pertinent pages from my books, which he promptly took me up on the offer .

I had a similar experience with a Magnette we purchased from Oregon. The vin number didn't match anything on the car, because the car had originally been titled in Wisconsin, where they had used the engine number and in the ensuing years, the engine had been changed. There I had to resort to changing the engine number plate, taking it into the Oregon State Police and showing them the situation, telling them that I was intending on swapping the engine (a true statement) and would they write a memo to their DMV stating the proper vin for the car and requesting that it be changed - again, problem solved.

Bottom line, I have found that starting with the people who inspect the cars is a better place to start, rather than the DMV. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Well it sounds like I may have stumbled into a pile of crap. Reading about the VIN also brings up that I am also trying to get the DMV to recognized that they have incorrectly used the engine serial number as the VIN number vice the chassis number.
I went onto a site today that provides heritage certificates but they don't list MG's built prior to 1954 in there site. Any one know of a site/location to get these certificates?????
I think I'll try and contact the New England MG Register as David Dubois mentions above.
There is something comforting to know that there are many other nighmare stories about improperly registered MG's. For the record, my mg td was built Dec 1950 according to the T Registry online.
Chassis# TD4936 Engine# XPAG/TD5208 RHD
I do have a valid Provincial Registration title listing it as a 1952. I just thought it would be nice to have it properly titled vice continuing the error. How silly of me!!!!!!!
CR Drolet

I understand cars then were registered by the year sold. My Oct. 51 TD is titled as a 52. The VIN is a combo of the chassis and engine #. Makes no difference to me whatsoever. Remeber that with TD-series cars, there were not truly specific model years/changes anyway- that is more recent.
Especially since the early 70s where a specific model year had to meet certain emission/safetly requirements. But even then the year titled/model didn't often match the year of manufacture. So I don't really understand the need to change anything. I bet they would call to have me taken away if I went to the DVM to have my 2009 Model and titled Maxima changed to an '08, just because it was made in July 2008! George
George Butz

My YT was built in November 1949 and sold in British Columbia in April 1950. It was thus recorded as a 1950 model. This botherd me a bit so one year while purchasing a current registration, insurance, etc. I mentioned it. They took my word for it and the car has been recorded as a 1949 since. Looks like BC is the place to be if you want a seemles correction. Terry in Vancouver
Terry O'Brien

It's nice to know when your car was made, but at least in the USA, the "model year" starts production in late summer. I think it used to be Sept. 1 and after would be marketed as the following year, and were a changed (somewhat at least) model. I think the date has moved back a bit lately. I had a motorcycle dealership (BSA, Norton, Rickman, Hodaka) in the 70's, I know sometime in the late fall they could be next yr's models, British or Japanese.
A W Parker

Pretty sure:
What you will be able to "change" is going to depend on who is behind the counter, what kind of mood they are in on any given day, and just how strickly they actually stick to the laws were you live.

It's a "crap-shoot" at best! The guy that did my "out of state inspection" when Izzy came to Ohio saw the car but never even looked at the vin tag...the one clerk at the BMV that corrected the vin # never saw the car ...but I had removed the tag and brought it to her!

IMHO: The vin# being correct is worth fixing ..."year"...not so much as I believe most know this depended on when it was sold in most places back in the 50's.

If memory serves me ...once before when this came up for dissusion here there was somebody out there with a "1959 TF".
David Sheward

Hi Colin, Not too sure if it is any use to you, but because all Service Deparments Records were tragically lost there is no way of finding out the original purchase date or the name of the original owner of our cars, therefore the MG car club T register has produced a copy of the first page of the original Guarantee certificate which gives in the Year Box the date that the car's chassis was "LaidDown" on the production line at Abingdon
You just supply the Car Club with your Chassis and Engine numbers and a few dollars and they will send you your guarantee
certificate signed by George Prophet for post war cars and Cecil Kimber for pre war cars,showing the date it rolled off the production line
Hope this helps
Steve 52 TD
Stephen Farr

Stephen,
I may have just been lucky but my 53 TD was fairly easy to trace to the original owner. Using the original reg. I knew the car was first registered in Gloucester. I contacted the Council who still maintain quite a few old records. They were able to send me a copy of the original registration and other info up until 1974. Of course that is in direct contrast to DVLA who show the first registration as 1989 in Northern Ireland.. Go figure!.... Chris
Chris Malcolm (TD 29228)

Although the factory TD records were destroyed, is there a way to trace the export destination of a given car through England's export records?
Jim Merz

Jim, Does this hold true with the TF? If so, how does one go about this? PJ
P S Jennings

I dunno PJ. I only remember reading about the loss for the TDs.
Jim Merz

'Although the factory TD records were destroyed'

The story is, that when BMC (boo, spit) took over/became an entity, all factory MG records from 1925 were put in a dumpster and hauled away to the dump. There is a story of a man jumping in to the dumpster and rescuing a few boxes...turned out to be the MMM records and one or two others....
Anything produced after BMC (boo, spit) started producing vehicles is available.
BMC imposed a numbering system starting at 501 instead of 0251(Abingdon's telephone number). After 6200 TF 1250s and 3400 TF 1500s, the last TF was numbered 10100.(The MGA started at 10101).
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

Hi again guys
I have just come across a new source of T Type talk on a web site called
www.ttypes.org
If you go to the resource part of this web site and scroll to the bottom of the page and click "production Records" on the T Register site and enter your chassis number it will give you the build date from the factory

Steve
Stephen Farr

This thread was discussed between 23/10/2010 and 29/10/2010

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