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MG TD TF 1500 - Of fuel pumps and evening drives

Diane and I went along the great river road from Hastings to Prescott, then to Hager City to Redwing. Love the new anti-sway bar and the solid feel it gives Tommy. Just before Redwing the car hesitated, as if it were starving for fuel. My first thought was some dirt in the tank, I periodically have that problem since the restoration. We stopped for some Mocha and at nine PM started out of Redwing. The car dies, and I figure I have 20 minutes of Twilight to think of something. It wasn't a non-vented cap, and the screens were clear of dirt and debris.

A nice guy driving his 86 year old mother back from Walmart stopped behind me, enthralled with the car and impressed as Diane tells him about the nut and bolt restoration, and I'm doing my best wondering how I can get the car safely on the road, or safely under cover if needed. I think of my friend Mike and his trailer (or Diane did... I was still thinking fuel pumps) and it was an attractive choice, but probably a 2 hour one.

Thanks MG for putting the TD fuel pump right there at working height. I did have dry carburetors, and with the last bit of light, and with the fuel pump cover off, I ran the emery paper I carry several times across the points. Not a lot of ticking, but the car fired right up. By this time the Police were there. The nice guy with his Mom left, after giving Diane his card and asking us to report back to him that we made it back to Hastings.

I walked back to the police cruiser, thanked the officer and started driving. Ooops, left the fuel dipstick on the railing along the highway, a gift from Dave, he made a bunch of metal ones for our club members, we both wanted to go back for it. Found it in the almost dark, and while we killed a bunch of bugs on the way home, the car ran as strong as it ever does. Whis is nice to know with the very long trip ahead of us in a week to GOF Central.

Sometimes a little adversity is pretty cool.

warmly,
Dave
Dave Braun

A test of character Dave. LeeAnn and I had our hiccups in the B last weekend. In preperation I replaced the 16 year old tires even though they only had about 3000 miles on them. The radiator had a small seep on the top of the tank so I pulled it and had it repaired. Glad I did because the 16 year hoses were showing their age so replaced those also. Had a sticking float valve because of the gas that had been in it since Breckinridge last June. Should be ready right. Wrong. After I picked up LeeAnn and we soon got on I 70. After a short period the car began to stumble. I determined that the fuel pump wasn't pumping enough fuel to maintain the higher rpm on the freeway. Headed back home where I had a new faucet pump on the shelf. No fuel hose so off to the parts store for some hose a fuse and some hose clamps. Wire in the new pump after considerable delay including a shower to get rid of the poetrol that had run down my arm and shirt. Off we go again. Notice as we are driving that several times the B lost all the gauges but came on a short time later. We hit a good hard rain near the mountain passes and during one of the dumpers I lost all the gauges again and the wipers also. Fortunatly they came back to life and we made our way on in to Denver. Also noticed that the right turn signal wasn't flashing suggesting that one bulb was out. Called my buddy Dan in Mo and and asked about the electrical drop out and we figured out it was most likely a bad contact at the fuse. Yes it was. Problem corrected. Turn signal was the right rear and I fiddled with it and thought it was good.
During the drive to Glenwood I noticed the right turn signal was no go again. After dinner I decided to fix the tail light. Needs a new bulb so I walk to a nearby service station get a bulb and that problem is corrected. I have a suspicion that the brake lights aren't working. Sure enough no brake lights. While I'm messing with the switch I notice the drivers rear tire is going flat. So out with the jack. It's dark now and a fellow across the parking lot asks if I'd like to use his floor jack he has in his trailer. Nice fellow and his wife who now summer in Colorado from Mississippi. He has a TD he bought for his wife who has been asking for 40 some years. I chjange to the 16 year old spare and head to bed. LeeAnn wants to abandon the rest of the weekend activities because we now have no brake lights and no spare. We have a start time of 7:57 am for the TSD event so no time for repairs. I tell her we'll see in the morning. Alarm doen't go off because the clocks 12 hrs off but I tell her to get up cause were going to Rallye. We did the rallye with no brake lights and no spare and made it home ok. Picked up a new fuel pump for the B at the silent auction that night so it ended ok.
LaVerne Downey

That reinforces my decision to install 2 pumps.
After mounting an MGB Facet directly to the tank and running a new stainless line right from it to the carb hose, I realized that horrendous racket was intolerable and I'd need to install an old SU pupmp to make my wife happy. I procured a cheap sediment bowl that threads right into other tank port, 3/8" NPT. Sediment bowl has shutoff valve, which also provides reserve! NICE! Magnet now resides in the bowl as first line of defense against rust (even with Caswell tank lining).
I'm wiring in separate switches, and keep trying to explain to my wife all the options now (not very receptive to change).
Leave top switch on so the old SU clicks away as usual.
If the old pump ever craps out, switchover to the other pump just by pulling the lower switch.
When it is parked around town, push the switch in for our antitheft protection.
When the old SU keeps clicking and clicking nonstop, and you smell gas all over the garage floor again, push the button in, and shove the car out of the garage to start it up... then pull switch on for the pump after it is running.
When the gas light comes on, think about finding gas. When it starts sputtering out, pull the lower switch out for the reserve and run on the noisy pump. If you don't like the racket, open the valve all the way out so the SU can run on reserve. And when you run the gas tank completely out, get on the cell phone and call me. And if the phone battery is dead, as it usually is, plug it in to either cigaret lighter, (I installed 2 of them).

Also installed a cute chrome pressure regulator form a Honda I junked. I wanted the least pressure at the needle & seat to minimize sticking, but the regulator also serves as a checkvalve to help keep gas up in the line when it is shut off.
Jim Northrup

Dave, you mighty venture a glimpse at
http://www.ttalk.info/LockePump.htm
or, http://www.ttalk.info/EmergencyPumpII.htm for the deluxe version. Bud
Bud Krueger (TD10855)

I like the concept of keeping the points Fuel pump in the TD because of being able to do as you described and just give them a quick sand to get out of a jamb. I also like the Facet and have them in all my B's. I also like the idea of two and think that is what I might do (when I get to that point) SU at the tool box - Perfect working height - and I'll keep a facet on the sidescreen box just in case. Best of both worlds right?

Last year, I was driving home in the '74 and it's starts sputtering like its running out of gas but never really dies. Limped home over the next mile or two and then finally about a mile from home she quits. Jeani came with a rope, hooked it up to the bumper and pulled me home. Pulled the SU, replaced it with the facet and have not heard a burp since. I have a picture somewhere of the metal filings that poured out of the SU when I emptied it into a pan. Some internal major catastrophe did it in.

I've got three sitting in boxes to send to Dave Dubois but have not gotten around to it yet. One day.
vping

I've used the same SU Fuel pump since 1974 when I finished my restoration. 10's of thousands of miles many many races later I can still count on that pump to keep me running..
Only once in my lifetime did I have a moments problem with it. The points were dirty and needed a drop of oil on their pivot points.. A little sandpaper and the drop of oil from the dipstick and I was back on the road in less than 5 minutes..
Joe Buchmiller

That's one thing I'm not crazy about on the TF, the location of the fuel pump. I think I'm going to do what I did on the wifes "B" and put a second pump in the system. I put the second pump, a mini facet type, down stream from the su pump. It worked fine on a test, but it hasn't become necessary to ever use it. Since the fuel line is a ground, I'll probably have to add an appropriate ground wire. I've even thought of installing an access plate over the pump in the side curtain storage box. Any input on this? PJ
P.S. Jennings

Rather than plumb a second pump into the system on my MGTD I just carry a spare pump, this after having my pump fail a few years ago. I purchased a pump that is not sensitive to polarity, made up fuel lines and fitting and carry some zap straps. This unit attached to the the old pump by zap strap, one end goes to the outlet side of the old pump and the other end jumps to the carbs. The wiring is simply attached with spade clips. It takes about 5 minutes to swap and will get you to where you are going. When not in use it sits happily in the tool box. I did test this to ensure that it works and it is perfect for our cars.

Brian
Brian Smith (1950 TD3376)

You check your oil every time you drive. You check your distributor points a couple of times per year. You check or change your spark plugs once per year. But when was the last time you checked your fuel pump (or at least cleaned the points)?

The fuel pump is no different. It too requires a small bit of maintenance. At least clean the points occasionally. And if the pump has not been run for a year or two, check that the diaphragm has not gone rock hard on you.

A well maintained pump can last the life of a car and can almost always be coaxed to life, but when ignored or has been altered from original, can sneak up on you at the most inopportune times.

Cheers,
Lew Palmer
Lew Palmer

My TD's old pump (which probably was only 6 or 7 years old) became unreliable. I think that it was my own fault. I had to clean it out several times before I finally got smart and treated the inside of my fuel tank. I believe that my problem was the diaphram, which, no matter what I tried (ie tightening the bolts while the points were triggered), never seemed to have the right amount of slack. Since this was the only real reliability issue with the car, I decided to bite the bullet and buy a new pump. I chose the S.U. pump with the solid state switching circuit, rather than points. It has performed flawlessly for about four years. If I hadn't messed up the old pump, I have no doubt that the points in it would have soldiered on indefinitely, as well. I just figured that for very little more investment (twenty bucks at the time), I would eliminate one possible headache in the future. The pump looks the same in every way, but the tick is a little softer!
Steven Tobias

If one looks at the lubrication chart in the back of the 'owner's manual', there are a few things that need attention every 250 and 500 miles...
I too, clean the points in the pump every month or so...(if I don't, then I do it at the side of the road).
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

Like I said before, the pump on my TF is on top of the frame behind the passenger seat under the side curtain box. It ain't easy to get to without jacking the car up to get under it. An in line facet pump would get me home in a pinch. If I never need it, that would be great, but if I did, that would be even better. PJ
P.S. Jennings

interesting point made in this thread about the life of some parts carried as spares. certain items in your spares inventory should be rotated.... sort of a use it or lose it. rubber parts deteriorate over time as well as use. how often do you test your spares or replace certain spares based on calendar time?
we see it in aircraft all the time. parts that have never been placed in use requiring rebuilding. the only thing more dangerous and frustrating than having to change out a fuel pump on the side of the road is having to do it twice. regards, tom
tom peterson

"the only thing more dangerous and frustrating than having to change out a fuel pump on the side of the road is having to do it twice."

...or, I suppose, at 10,000 feet?
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

This thread was discussed between 17/06/2010 and 06/07/2010

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