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MG TD TF 1500 - Oil leaking free TD or TF

Can anyopne tell me about an oil leak free TD or TF ??
Off course assuming that the engine has oil and that the car is driven regularly.... Not a trailer queen
I have tried the Moss convertion and all kind of tricks and have not been able to have an oil leak free mg td or TF
Thanks
Jose Vicente Vargas

My personal opinion: It would be very difficult or impossible to make an XPAG totally leakproof. Remember this was designed in the late 30s. On the early TD, there are at least 12 copper washer/banjo seals to leak. The valve cover is a stamped, rolled sharp edge with minimal hold-down pressure, the side cover design pools oil between the gasket and cover, with another pool of oil next to the lifters and gasket, many of the casting surfaces are rough due to rust, porosity, and original coarse machining, the front can leak between the bearer plate and block, as well as the timing cover to plate, and then of course the seals. To make as leak-free as possible you would have to really work on all faces of all joints, flatten covers, re-machine sealing surfaces, etc. and it will likely still leak sooner or later. The main advantage is rust prevention toward the back. George
George Butz

"The main advantage is rust prevention toward the back." OK, I laughed out loud at that one!

I was wondering who might answer this one, as the question asks to 'tell me about an oil leak free TD or TF' never having personally seen one, I didn't feel qualified to anwser.

I did get 'just OK' results on my rebuild by carefully fitting the rear plate to the archimedes screw scroll, the one piece seal in the front doesn't work as well as I thought it would, but I had the pulley in and out when a replacement wasn't readily available from Moss, and I may have damaged the lip, still it is pretty dry.

I also have a bit leaking at the gearbox, but I didn't put the silicon smear between the bell housing and the gearbox because I read John Twist's article after I assembled that portion.

A very light smear on the shaft of the distributor does a nice job of preventing oil at that block, and the side cover can be flattened and with a bit of gasket seal on the block side does pretty well.

My soluntion? I go under the car and wipe the worst off every few hundred miles, and accept the rest as George does, as superior rust protection!

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

That leak is not a problem. It is actually a little known feature installed at the factory. It is called the Automatic Driveway Oiling System. It does a great job of rust prevention on the chassis and it keeps the driveway looking used. A great feture that new car owners simply do not have the oppertunity to enjoy.

The loose nut behind the wheel!
Jim
JP Jim

The front crankshaft Volvo seal set in silicone has been the answer on my TF, and maintaining the sump at half oil level to reduce the surging effect that soaks the rear seal can help. All other joints I think can with patience be corrected.
B Mellem

B Mellem

Could you expand on the "Volvo seal" for the front crankshaft? I watched the MGCC XPAG rebuild on DVD and while they did show the seal and talk about it at length, they never did actually provide any details as to supplier/part #/ etc.

This appears to be a far better idea than the original seal (or at least what is being sold as the original seal material). My early engine was rebuilt but did develop a healthy oil leak from the front seal, amongst other areas, and it is coming apart now to be redone and hopefully have a minimum of oil leakage ;>)

Brian
Brian Smith

Jose-
Dave, Jim and JP have the correct understanding of the leaking TD. Look at it not as a problem but an affermation that you do, indeed, own a MGTD. Rejoice at every drop!! I bought a clapped out minivan six months ago with 100 000 miles. It leaks power steering fluid and I considere it a sin to my drivway. But I view the Castrol from the TD to be a badge of honor. Its all a matter of mind set.
However, there may be a difference of your leaks from ours. Being in the Southern Hemisphere your leaks may revolve in the oposite direction from ours. Could that enhance the problem? Certainly one of the many enginering savy people on this site can respond.
With waarm regards,
Dick Thomas
Dick Thomas

Brian

The lip seal is Moss P/N 120-750. You can see how it installs at my website, http://www.dbraun99.com/mgtd15470/ and go to Engine XPAG TD2 15613 » Installation. An image is attached. The blue stuff is a light smear of RTV.

warmly,
dave

Dave Braun

I have heard it said that "If you have a large oil leak below your T-series car, you have a problem. If you have NO OIL LEAK at all, then you have a HELL OF A BIG problem, but if you have just a small one, then leave it alone, as everything is perfectly normal"!
G.E. Love

I agree with all the comments. I do not care if the TD leaks oil... I have no problems with that. The question is I have a friend of bristish descent that has 2 TF and stills dreams about having oil free leaks TF;s....
He just rebuild his 2 engines and still dreams about no leaks.
I m sure both engines will leak... As original cars should
I love it about the rust protection....!!!!! on the chassis. Great idea.
Thanks,
Jose Vicente Vargas

No oil leaks? I'm sure that no such car exists. I think that since these leaks were "period correct", their absence would cost points at a car show! I too have had great success with the Moss front lip seal-it is as dry as a bone. The rear lip seal mod is mediocre at best, but still better than I got with the origional arrangement. I try to change my oil before it gets really funky so at least the oil drops on my friends' driveways (actually I try to confine my stains to the street at the curb instead) are not dark and fade away after a bit of rain and sun!
Steven Tobias

Hello MG friends,

I know, it has a beard, but I can't resist it:

Old MG's, including TD's and TF's, don't leak!

They just mark their territory!

Erik van Hardeveld
Erik vanHardeveld

The "Hal Kramer" Volvo, front seal works better than any Moss front seal. In my opinion, line boring of the main bearing journals to get the clearances to the lower limit & then scraping the rear upper main oil thrower to fit, is all that is needed at the rear main bearing. No magic is needed, just attention to detail.
Len Fanelli

I found a double lip seal having the same dimensions as the Moss seal. I installed a speedi-sleeve on the crankshaft pulley to provide a smooth surface for the seal. The timing chain cover was installed with the seal nested in some silicone sealer using the pulley as a centering device. I made sure the bottom of the cover was even with the bottom of the block as I tightened the cover bolts. With the seal held firmly in place by the silicone, I installed the sump with some silicone in the seal groove and the pulley still in place. It all cured very nicely and there are no leaks from the timing chain cover.
Jim Merz

I had a 53 TD with front and rear Volvo seals. There were absolutely no leaks anywhere. The main reason they did not leak was they were included in the volvo engine that was in the car.
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist.

Dan H.

Dan Hanson

The only way to cure an oil leak on any MG is to not put any in :-)
Osam abinladen

To all:

On a bulletin board where nearly everyone posts with their full name, I find the moniker Osam abinladen offensive. The man, Osama Binladen, killed in one day 3,000 of my fellow countrymen. I wonder how it would be recieved if I posted as Adol phitler?

David Braun
Dave Braun

Jose
Here is some reading from the archives. The original rope seal used in our cars engines will eventually leak some oil as they get older, some more than others. But all will leak! In the past I’ve used the moss seal with little luck and the Andrew Bradley seal which is still holding after fourteen years. You just have to figure out if the little puddle of oil is enough for you to go to the time and expense of the other fixes. John


John Hambleton

John,
When posting links to the archives, be carefull, as that link leads to "YOUR" BBS !! Some one can post a message with your name as the poster!

SPW
Steve Wincze

some one can post like this ! They can even change your personal settings....
John Hambleton

Jose

All the joking aside. I don't think it is possible to have a totally leak free TD/TF that is running, but that does not mean you have to live with an engine that pools oil all over the place.

Meticulous attention to assuring seal surfaces are perfectly flat, gaskets attached following exact directions and some of the newer seals can get it down to barely a noticeable drip. My TD is on it's second engine and while I do find a drip on the drip pan after driving it, it is not anything I even look at any more.
Bruce-C

(test post) did this forum get hacked recently? found my settings disturbed :(


Oil leaks wherever any MG is parked is good confirmation that there's still fluids inside.

Don't go robbing banks with BMC machinery.

Wills

The front oil seal I used was purchased from Brown & Gammons which I found fully oil tight. I managed to fit the seal with the engine in situ but the radiator and sump need removing, the timing cover is removed and the seal set in place in jointing compound, the timing cover and seal are then slid back and bolted in place. I think it is important that the crankshaft pulley is replaced before the compound sets for the seal to align. The job can be with determination done in a weekend.
As for the sump rear drip I found by reducing the oil level the problem became tolerable. However I must confess that I drive more sedately these days, and the scavenge is unlikely to run dry while cornering.
B Mellem

Wills, T series are not part of BMC.
Safety FAST!
Len Fanelli

The reason the Brits have been unsuccessful in making television sets, it that they haven't figured out a way to make them leak oil.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

Gordon, GORDON, thanks again for getting me going!
G.E. Love

Any MG engine oil leak can be reduced, if not eliminated, by installing a PCV valve and associated parts from a 1964-67 MGB engine (Moss Pt# 360-630) The PCV valve creates a negative pressure in the crankcase thus preventing oil from escaping from any unsealed opening. This worked great on my 1964 MGB engine that had a substantial leak.

In order to complete the installation you will need to modify the intake manifold so that the PCV valve can be fitted. You will also need to modify, or change out the tappet cover so that a rubber tube can be connected between the tappet cover and the inlet side of the PCV valve. (See "Emission Controls" on Page 20 of the 2009 MGB catalogue or there web site. Better yet look at a MGB)

If I can be of further assistance, please call me at 843-838-0822. It is also okay to e-mail if your question requires only a short answer.
Frank Grimaldi

This thread was discussed between 16/02/2009 and 12/03/2009

MG TD TF 1500 index

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