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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Rat Rod TD/C Mark II

I've just had delivered an eBay Mark II that was raced in the 50's, has no bumpers, was disassembled and then the owner died, so it sat in an Arkansas basement, stripped of metal and paint, for almost 50 years. Right now it is a pile of surface rust and the remains of clipper blue, with most body parts temporarily twist-wired on. The engine seems to have been re built, but it will need suspension, brakes, wiring, instruments, etc. after all this time. Other than that, it's surprisingly solid.

I am thinking of leaving it as a Rat Rod, with a complete mechanical rebuild front to rear, but clear-coated over the rust and paint. I stress that this is a stock TD with airport using airport transfers tonbridge-circuit history, has headers, re-shaped intakes, factory 1-1/2's, all 4 Andri, and may be lowered (I can't tell - it looks so different with 600x15's).

On the one hand it is a Mark II and deserving of full attention; on the other hand, I am restoring another Mark II to completely original, and have 3 other Mark II's waiting for some future lifetime.

Any thoughts?

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Hi Tom:
There are many restored MKIIs around but I have only seen a few authentic back-in-the-day from-the-track T-series racers. You will soon have a restored MkII: Do you NEED/WANT a second? Twenty years from now AS-Raced will be the rare find.
Just my thoughts . . .
Jc
John Crawley

Tom,
My thoughs are the same as Johns,,leave it as a period racer,,,but I'm not too sure about clear coating over the rust,,, That might look real butt-ugly after while, when the rust starts bubbling up the clear coat.... can you post a picture of how bad the suface rust is ?? might look better with a rattle can of clipper blue????

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Sorry if I wrote poorly. I do absolutely NOT need a second restored Mark II car, and plan to leave this one mechanically just as found, rebuilding and repairing only what it needs to get back on the road. Rattle-can Clipper Blue might just work, after sand-blasting and priming the body. I'll try to download a picture, but fear my inadequacies in doing so - it always comes back as too big a file. Besides, the car is just so ugly now, that I hate to break the BBS or my camera...

LOL Tom
t lange

Tom,If you need it reduced, send it to me, and I'll reduce it,,, then send it back so you can post it,,
MGTD52 AT COMCAST DOT NET
STEVE WINCZE

Steve - many thanks; I'll do this later today, after I get the kids at the bus.

Tom
t lange

I' no fan of the rust mobiles on the streets today. I can appreciate the creative nature of rat rods but the lack of any finish work leaves me cold. Period flat color would be my choice. Just my two cents.
L E D LaVerne

I have no immediate plans for this car, and am collecting every .02 I can, to help guide me. I've never before done a rat rod and most of them leave me cold, as well. But the thought of cruising past a modern car in something that looks almost broken down, intrigues me. I like "as found" cars, but perhaps not quite this rough.

Tom
t lange

Here are some photos of the Mark II about which I wrote. Thanks for the advice.

As I look at the pictures I am struck by how awful this car looks - it really is a solid car, and the doors close like new. Rattle-can blue after sandblasting sounds best to me.

Tom


t lange

And another. Tom


t lange

Please note that the bailing wire was intended to hold the car together during transport, and will be replaced with proper nuts and bolts.

Tom
t lange

Some cars are ripe for restoration.Your Tom is getting there.
Here is one I tackled a few years ago after setting outside a storage area in Sarasota Fl.


DARNOC31

Tom, what's the bump on the right side of the hood? I'll have to go look but I don't think my TD has one. Is that a special TDC/TD Mark II thing?

Jud
J K Chapin

they can be restored. As I got TF 5110


RG Taylor

as it sits today should be back on the road end of June.


RG Taylor

Jud - that's a Mark II bulge for the 1-1/2" carbs, All Mark IIs had them, not found on standard TDs.

Tom.
t lange

Tom

One of our club members has a restoration shop and is doing a TD Rat Rod. He used to have some pictures of it but I don't see them on his web. http://www.gunnersgreatgarage.com/
Bruce Cunha

Tom

Looking at the images, the 'structure' does not look like a true amateur racer from the 1950/60's. I would expect cycle wings and no headlights, and no running board, the side panels of the bonnet (hood) missing, no or little windscreen, hood (top?) long since gone. All easy mods to reduce wind resistance. Then stripped to reduce weight. This car looks more like a worn out 'chick magnet' for street use.

If I am wrong, then certainly restore it to a key point in its history as a racer, otherwise, it is a MKII with interesting internals.

An original condition (barn find) is worth keeping unrestored, but once it has been tinkered with, in my opinion, returning to ex-factory appearance is the better solution.

IanB
Ian Bowers

Ian - racing on US airport circuits in the 50's was quite casual and friendly, and cars were usually not significantly modified, other than removing bumpers, taping headlights, putting on larger tires, etc. (this car has Sears 6.00x15 tires) This engine has clearly been breathed upon, as I can see that the intakes have been re-shaped, it has headers, and the rockers have been polished. Headers alone are rare on a street TD, and point to a race history. There are also some stickers from an Air Force base in Arkansas, where such racing could well have been held - I'll do research on this.

This car also has sockets added to the upper fascia on the driver's side for a single racing windscreen, it has an extra water temperature gauge between the tach and speedo, and a set of lightweight, aluminum bumpers (the front with a significant bend...) came with the car. I'm confident that with all this and the history I was told, it supports the car being a racer in the 50's.

I'll retain all those changes when I put it together.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Jud - that's a Mark II bulge for the 1-1/2" carbs, All Mark IIs had them, not found on standard TDs.

Tom.

My Mark II doesn't have that bulge in the bonnet(hood).
It looks too high to have anything to do with the carbs. I wonder if it was put there to clear a supercharger pulley or something.

Mike
M Spencer

Mike - The bulge is there at the forward end of the front Mark II 1-1/2" carb, which has a longer body than the 1-1/4" carb on the stock TD. Without it, the 1-1/2" carb and air intake will not fit. Your bonnet has pretty clearly been replaced then, or at least that panel.

There is still much to learn about Mark II cars, but of this I am certain!

Mike - I don't believe I have your Mark II listed; may I trouble you for the TD/C number? Many thanks.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Hi Tom

Chassis is TD/C2238, engine 2423. FRX still has its original 1 1/2 in SUs fitted and the original bonnet
with no bulge. There was never any type on of air filter(s) fitted. Maybe the bulge was for the export models only for air filters to be fitted to satisfy legislation.

Mike
M Spencer

Mike - unless you are the original owner and know with certainty, I am confident that your car came with what the factory called the air intake - the T-shaped part that connects the carbs with the air filter can. Your car must be lacking that part.

Early TD/C cars used the 1-1/4" air intake which strangled the engine, so the air intake was more often than not removed by owners and mechanics. You can tell if your carbs were fitted with that early air intake if the holes on the intake flanges of the carbs are filed horizontally oblong (to fit the narrower bolt spacing of the 1-1/4" air intake). Later cars used a larger and unique 1-1/2" air intake, and can be identified by round, un-filed holes on the carb intake flange. I have never looked into it, but it stands to reason that UK cars also came with the air intake, since they came with the same specs.

As for the bulge, I have never seen an original car that did not have the bulge, and the few TD/C cars without the bulge are restored and re-painted cars, have replaced bonnets, or 1-1/4" carbs.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom,

I've had a nose round the web and it would appear that the 'bulge' appeared on cars from late'53, TD/C22613.

Have a look here:

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_production.htm#ckd

The intake flanges on FRX have round holes. All the pictures I see of the cars with 1-1/2in SUs are without
air filters. As mentioned in another thread FRX 942 was the car tested in the Autosport magazine for the
MG TD Mk II road test (driven by John Bolster). I have a copy of the mag so will try to scan the pics from the article, I think there is one of the engine bay.
I imagine it would not have been changed for the road test.

Mike
M Spencer

Mike - I'm sorry to say that there are a lot of errors on the Web - and some in the website you note. For instance, the first TD/C car was not TD/C 1123 as stated there, but was TD/C 1124, made 5 days before 1123.

I and other Mark II owners (I have 5 right now) have tried to get those and similar errors in other MG sites changed, but there seems little interest in up-dating. Some websites, for instance, still claim that Mark II cars came with bucket seats and the brake scoops found on the prototype Mark II car, FMO885, and also report that there was no standard Mark II - that production changes happened all the time, and that one could pick and choose which Mark II features one wanted on his car.

Perhaps we should take this off-line? I look forward to hearing from you.

Tom
t lange

These exchanges are interesting for us bystanders - please, don't take it off-line.
BobbyG
Bobby Galvez

I suggested taking it off-line only because I feared I was becoming tiresome!

Tom Lange
t lange

IMHO: Please don't take it off line! These kind of conversations are what first attracted me to this site. That these will be here long after we are all gone is a great service to the Marque and those that will follow.
Without this info where would they turn?
Old Ebay adverts and some of the claims made there?
I certainly hope not!
David Sheward

Please keep in on line. Friendly and knowledgeable exchanges of conflicting, sometime controversial and occassionally even conflicting ideas, opnions and tidbits of lore among real enthusiasts who know and love what they are talking about makes this site invaluable and very enjoyable. It's the first and often only web site I visit daily.

Jud
J K Chapin

Hi all,

I've sent a scan of the road test to Tom. If anyone else is interested in an e-mail copy make yourself
known on here and I'll send it to you.

Mike
M Spencer

I'd be interested. Email in my sig (delete the obvious)
Rob Edwards

Mike I'd be very interested in having a copy.
Bob
R. K. Jeffers

There are some interesting things in this road test of FRX942, and a few that puzzle me. The tester reports that "The car I took over for test was a Mark II model, that is to say it had undergone modifications from the basic specifications to make it more suitable for high-speed work." I am unclear whether this means it was a "standard" Mark II car, or one that had been further modified, since it was known to have been raced by George Phillips. I question this because further on, George Bolster, the reviewer, notes, "... scoops on the back plates assist the pierced disc wheels to circulate [air] over the drums." This - and the clear picture on the last page of the review - show that the air scoops were very definitely on this car's front brakes, which they still are, per the owner.

My instinct is that cars prepared by the factory for racing - especially those cars prepared for drivers like Dick Jacobs (FMO885, the Mark II prototype shown on the Mark II brochure) and George Phillips - had further modifications to the standard Mark II, since they were as close to works drivers and cars as there were in those days. Just as I am pretty sure that no production Mark II cars came with bucket seats, I am equally pretty sure none came with front brake scoops.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

>I am equally pretty sure none came with front brake scoops.

I know 1/1710 of them did not. ;-)

Mike -- my '51 TD/C (TD/C6000) has the bulge....
Rob Edwards

This thread was discussed between 03/06/2013 and 14/06/2013

MG TD TF 1500 index

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