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MG TD TF 1500 - Rear Shocks are going to rub.
|My TD is a very late 51 or early 52. I believe the rear shocks are the later ones. I had one of each kind on front. As I assemble the quarter panels I find the lever arms are going to rub. (See picture) |
Get the correct ones?
bend the panel a bit to get clearance?
It seems as if maybe your tub isn't on the frame properly,,,I believe there shoud be clearance for either shock back there,,,
|Would anyone have a picture of this area so I can see if my body is shifted, front to rear? |
there is no room side to side.
I did check Daves site but came up empty.
On my TD there is about 10mm clearance vertically at the point you have highlighted in your photograph. However, there is very little sideways clearance, perhaps a few millimetres. Do your rear springs have the correct camber? Regards, Matt.
|At that point the shocks are bolted to the frame. The spring camber would only effect the angle of the arm. |
I would need to lift the body off the frame to get more clearance.
At this point I have two (ss) metal washers and a rubber washer Which moves the tub up about 1/4" (6.25 mm)
Am I missing some thing? should I add another 3/8" or so of spacers? Rubber? Metal?
I dont know which way to go. Should I add shims to raise the body?
|Selectively raising the tub may mess up the door fit, spare tire rack fit, front wing/running board fit,etc. There should be minimal packing betwee the tub and the chassis. I'm not sure that is what the problem is. Was the back of the tub repaired or rebuilt? Any new metal or wood? Any prior accident damage? Are you sure those are the correct shocks/arms? It may be the angle, but the rounded end of the shock arm looks huge in diameter, maybe someone with the early stype Armstrongs can measure the OD of the arm round part. I just crawled under my TD, with Girling shocks. There is about 1/2"clearance in height both sides, and about 1/2" lateral clearance on the right, and about 1/4" on the left. The whole tub fore/aft is somewhat controlled by the brackets that bolt the fire wall to the chassis. If they are not on alreay, check that for basic fore/aft placement of the tub on the chassis. George|
I have a 1952 TD (Chassis No. TD19416, Build Date: Sep 2, 1952). Here are two pictures of how the rear Girling shocks mount on the TD.
>Any prior accident damage?
There was no evidence of a rear end accident.
I believe the flywheel blue up, destroyed the motor, and ripped the firewall in two.
>Was the back of the tub repaired or rebuilt?
Yes it was substantially rebuilt.
On the lower front of the rear quarter panel, just before the wheel opening, the metal was replaced for a vertical distance of 4-3/4". The original having rusted away.
In the back of the rear quarter panel the metal was replaced for a distance of 9-1/2"
(Those measurements are on the drivers side, the passenger side may be different. I used OA gas welding.
The wheel wells were after market replacements, Perhaps from Abingdon. Unfortunately they were welded in without the body being on the frame. (A big Bad on my part).
The wooden bottom main rails were also replaced.
>Are you sure those are the correct shocks/arms?
I suspect they are not. As I understand They should be Girling. These are Armstrong. I actually had one of each make on the front. (I now have two Girlings there.)
The only thing I can think of is that when I welded the wheel wells in I got them too low. However on the outside they are mated with the original lip on the quarter panel. I don't see a significant droop on the inside.
I can look for a set of Girlings. I have been wanting to change back to them. I let a couple of sets go on eBay when I didn't think I needed them. Now I don't seen them very often and the last pair were very expensive and in bad shape.
>The whole tub fore/aft is somewhat controlled by the brackets that bolt the fire wall to the chassis. If they are not on alreay, check that for basic fore/aft placement of the tub on the chassis.
I have not nailed the scuttle on yet. I will do so and then see if it improves and keep looking for a set of Girling rear shocks and links.
Thank you George and thank you Larry for the pictures.
|Jim, there is a supposedly original Armstrong shock on ebay now that looks exactly like yours, so the shocks may not be the problem. If the rest of the tub/wings/firewall/doors etc. fit tine, you could always trim the metal away a bit. I'll try to measure the width of my Girlings from the frame to the outer edge of the arm this weekend so you can compare to your exitsting shocks. If the sheet metal in question is aftermarket, that is likey the problem- it may just be too long. George|
|>it may just be too long. George|
That thought has been nagging me. I just do not know.
I am having one h**l of a time getting the rear quarter panels to fit.
I have to take the drivers side off again tomorrow for about the 5th time.
|Since my wheel is only on with two nuts I took a look.|
|And a side shot.|
|I may be corrected but it is my understanding that the mountings for Armstrong shocks are different than the Girling shocks. If you don't have the "bump" for damper clearance on the front wings (fenders) your car would have been originally Girling dampers. The fact that you have Armstrongs on the rear may be your problem.|
|Mikes looks a lot different than I have. |
I will continue to look for a usable set of Girlings.
Thanks to all
p.s the rear quarter is off again while I straighten the bracket on the frame that holds the gas tank back board
PS-2 Do not weld the wheel arch on with out the q-panel being on a frame or fixture.
|I'm 99% sure there is no fit difference for the rear shocks, the bump deal is just because the front Armstrong bodies are taller. Maybe someone with rear Armstrongs could check clearances and/or take a picture? George|
FWIW... I just found some old photos.
|Mort (50 TD "Mobius")|
|On my TD, the closest distance from the centerline of the shock shaft to the closest point on the sheet metal is 1-1/2". This looks about the same in Mort's picture above. The distance from the frame rail next to the shock to the edge of the sheet metal is between 3-3/4" -4.0" horizontaly. What is your measurement here? George|
|PROBLEM SOLVED. |
George Butz hit the nail on the head in his post of 07/09/12 and his measurements got me looking.
From the center of my shock arm piviot to the closest metal was 3/4" on the car as of now. about 1" shorter then George's.
The distance from the frame to the sheet metal was 3-5/8 to 3-7/8. Similar to George's
I found the remains of the old innards and when I measure from the to to the middle flat head mounting hole I get about 10-3/4 to 11"
On the "new" parts the distance is the same. However measuring on that line the overall length of the old parts were 12-1/2" the new parts are 13-1/2"
Thus the aftermarket parts were over sized by about 1"
At this point they will need to stay that way and I will free up the left/right fit a bit on the passenger side
Thanks to all for their comments. I had forgotten I still had the rested remains from 45 years ago.
There is a postscript and a story to be told.
As you remember the fender wells were going to hit the shocks.(Top left in the montage) These(fender wells) were purchased about 26 years ago. I went through my folders and did not find where they were bought. I text-ed my son who purchased them and he thought Abingdon. He asked why, is there a problem? I sent him a picture. He said that I was supposed to have folded over the bead!!!!!!
(Top right in the montage)
Well the Q-Panels are nailed in with SS threaded nails and I was not going to take them out.
I made a little tool, just a piece of 3/8 by 3/4 aluminum with a 1/16 slot at an oblique angle. This fits over the lip (lower left) and with some (a lot)work I was able to fold the lip back to the point where I could finish it up with a LARGE C-Clamp. This took all day for one side. (lower right).
I don't know if the fender wells you get today are the same but you may need to work on them before welding.
|Nice work. At least you don't need new shocks. George|
|Nice fix Jim.|
|Mort (50 TD "Mobius")|
This thread was discussed between 31/08/2012 and 12/09/2012
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