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MG TD TF 1500 - TD starter disassembly

I received a rebuilt starter with a pinion gear much worse for wear than that on my old starter. In trying to swap these out the rebuilt unit came apart easily while the pinion on the old unit seems to be hitting metal to metal and doesn't slide off of the shaft. How do I remove this?
D.J. Rodgers

Sometimes a lip forms on the armature which won't let the pinion barrel slide off. Use a puller, or support the barrel and gently tap the armature out of the barrel(protecting the threads of course).
George Butz

Make sure the pinion has 10 teeth, not 9. This could be a reason why it is chewed up, also check for damaged teeth on your flywheel's ring gear. Cheers Phil
Phil Atrill

The pinion came off easily with a bigger hammer. Unit has been put together and returned to vehicle. When I try to spin the starter I hear a "clunk" and it stalls. I pushed the car back in forth in gear without the plugs in place and the engine turns but the square protruding on the back of the starter does not. I bypassed the Lucas nightmare by attaching a battery directly to the starter and got the same result. Any thoughts? I didn't pull the unit back out to count the splines. By the way, I put the extras battery to the old starter and and spun with authority. I also made sure the rebuilt unit spun before installing it. Something doesn't want to allow the starter to spin.
D.J. Rodgers

Did the first starter work fine at some point then fail? Have you looked at the ring gear teeth? George
George Butz

Well, here we are again. I removed the rebuilt starter to observe the ring gear. To me the teeth look clean and sharp but I don't know what I'm looking for . I didn't see unusual wear or broken or damaged teeth. The gears are so sharp I am lead to believe I replaced this back when the engine was overhauled. After removing the unit I tried to spin it on battery and it didn't respond but the old unit works. Could something have been damaged when I tried to start it with the rebuilt unit? The battery cable was warm when I touched it.

I counted pinion teeth and found nine on each unit.

The battery is new last week.

The problem started when I was starting the car after replacing the fuel pump. One moment it was cranking and the next it was not. This was the first time I experience this after owning the car for 20 plus years. Thus began my journey for a starter which it appears was not the problem.

Any ideas what to check next?
D.J. Rodgers

So the rebuilt one doesn't work now at all? Maybe it was defective? When you tried the first one bypassing "the Lucas nightmare"- did you ground the jumper directly to the block or stater mouting bolt? The ring gear teeth tend to badly wear in the areas corresponding to the compression stoke of each cylinder- the teeth can be nearly worn off. Those spots tend to jam the pinion/starter. George
George Butz

So, your starter does not have the correct pinion, if it has only 9 teeth. The correct pinion has 10 teeth, part #148-800. Check with Moss to confirm this. Cheers Phil
Phil Atrill

The gear teeth should not be sharp... that would be an indication of poor meshing, confirming Phil's statement. I would be thinking about what George said as well. You may have worn the ring gear.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Phil, the starter original to my TD has 9 teeth, as does my 1960 spare starter, and a new in Lucas box NOS starter drive right in front of me. George
George Butz

PS- In Kenneth Ball's TA-TF manual,the chart shows 93/10 teeth for the TC flywheel ring gear/starter pinion, and 120/9 teeth for the TD and TF. George
George Butz

Hi George, That's odd. The Moss part has 10 teeth. My TD has 10 teeth, for a ratio of 1-12. It dosen't make sense that the TC would have more teeth than the TD/TF since the TC only has 93 teeth on the ring gear versus 120 teeth on the TD/TF. I will never the less research this more. Cheers Phil
Phil Atrill

Must have something to do with the diameter of the pinion gear, the thickness of the teeth, etc. Go figure!
George Butz

This thread was discussed between 03/07/2010 and 05/07/2010

MG TD TF 1500 index

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