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MG TD TF 1500 - TF electric fan
|Good morning gentlemen,|
My 54 TF 1500 is running better than ever with Sierra gearbox, pertronix lobe sensor ignition and MGB fan. Ignition and carburetors set up, ten degrees static advance. Burns no oil. Rad and engine are clean, minimal crust. 50/50 glycol/water. Still, it will overheat(boil) when climbing long hills or when stuck in traffic. Vapor locking is a part of the picture.
I am therefore considering an electric fan, preferably a puller, at the rear of the rad, but searching the archives of this BBS give no definite conclusion on an electric fan solution. So therefore:
Any experiences to report? Will it really, I mean REALLY help?
Which brand? Hayden, Revotech, Kenlowe?
I will be very grateful for knowledge based advice on this issue.
|No electric cooling fan TF owners out there?|
There are two nicer solutions to curing overheating.
1/ uprated water pump.
2/ triple core radiator.
1/ uses a 6 vane impellor, for 2/ you will need to have the radidator re-cored.
Sorry, no experience with electric fans. A lot of us have replaced the original metal four blades with the seven blade plastic MGB fan.
Good luck, sir...
Scott Ashworth - '54 TF
|S. R. Ashworth|
Have you ever considered the EVENS Non water coolant.
I think I saw it on J leno's Garage on Youtube
Does not rust your block and has a very high boiling point - Is non toxic - I don't think you will boil it (180 C) also has better heat transfer properties.
Not had any experience of using it myself yet but think it is a good way to go.
Has anyone had a bad experience using it?
|R. D. Jones|
|Believe Jan is allready using MGB fan.|
(Something I haven't gotten around to changing.)
I am still running stock fan & radiator and have had no issues since Jet-Hot treatment 12+ years ago.
I do run a Bruno water pump as well.
Prior to the above, lots of overheating and Vapor Lock problems.
|Thanks Dave. Read too quickly / absorbed too slowly. |
|S. R. Ashworth|
|Use 20/80 and Water Wetter in warmer months, go back to 50/50 with Water Wetter when there is danger of freezing,|
You will drop the temperature by 10 degrees C ( 20 F) due to the increased heat exchange efficiency.
I use it in my TF 1500 and never go over 85 C even on 37 C degree days at 65 MPH.
"Water Wetter" increases the rate of heat exchange at the block and the radiator ( increasing the percent water improves the fluids heat transport character.
| Hi Jan,|
I spent some time installing an electric fan in our TD. We're not running yet (soon!), so the ultimate test has yet to come. I'll upload a few installation pictures first, and then discuss a bit.
The main installation bracket is a piece of aluminum flat bar laid across the steel flat bar that supports the radiator (I'm assuming the TF is similar). Holes were drilled so the underlying bolt heads can poke through, and the holes were drilled and tapped in the steel piece to receive the flat-head machine screws.
Tapped holes in the aluminum flat bar are for fan mounts.
|The lower mounts are just flat bar tabs pop-rivetted to the radiator sheet metal.
|The fan mounts really nicely, and is nicely secured. I put some small rubber feet between the fan mounts and metal to absorb some vibration. The four mounting bolts are easily accessible for fan removal.|
I had found a cheap ($25!) Zirgo fan on ebay when I first started the restoration. I was worried about it, but it turns out to be about like all the rest. It really puts out some air when it's turned on.
Now the weird stuff. I got a 14-inch fan, which pretty much covers the radiator. In order to fit it, I had to cut off the little flange extension where the stock or MGB fan mounts. That means emergency replacement if the electric fan breaks down is quite a bit more difficult - you have to carry a spare pulley. A smaller fan, or installing more off center might allow you to keep the mounting flange on the pulley.
I had the radiator shop put in threads for a thermal switch at the base of the radiator. That turns out to be the worst place to put it, according to the fan-man ( http://the-fan-man.com/ ). He says the best place is between the engine and the thermostat. So I drilled and tapped into the thermostat housing.
Unfortunately, the long sensor I had interfered with the thermostat, so I had to order another thermal switch with a shorter sensor. Another 1/4-in down would have been fine.
Choosing a switch is a trick. I ended up with a 190 (88C)degree on, 175 (79C)degree off unit. Apparently, you want some range so the fan doesn't cycle too much.
The fan draws something like 10-15 amps. So if you go electric, you pretty much have to install an alternator. Our generators just don't cut it.
So, in the end I'm not sure it's really worth it, and I can't say I don't have some misgivings. The MGB fans are pretty nice, and they're not going to ever break down. On the plus side, I like the idea of an efficient engine, and the output of these fans is amazing.
The fan-man (see link above) loves his gig and can talk at length about this odd subject. He sells "Spal" fans and all the switches.
|If your cooling problems exist at speed, an electric fan won't help. There's likely an issue in the cooling system itself. I have the dimpled core, tripple row radiator, the fancy water pump with extra vanes and an mgb fan and my TF stays nice and cool (also have ceramic coated extractor). If you do go with an electric thermastatic controlled fan, do a pusher (they work better than a puller) and then remove the fan on the water pump. That fan takes a fair amount of HP drive it.|
|Thank you for your very knowledgeable responses! It seems I can run forever even in hot weather at 3500 rpm which equals 90 kph with my Sierra five speed gearbox. But long steep uphillls and traffic jams make the TF overheat. Seems that I will try the reduced glycol plus water wetter recipe now, and maybe consider a pusher fan in front of the rad , plus a hopped up water pump as my winter duties before next season. Btw, who are producing and selling the multivane water pumps? |
|I put a pusher fan in. Works a treat in slow traffic and was easy to install. Just removed the access plate at the bottom under the grill.|
Unfortunately there is no make on it... and I couldn't find the receipt in my folder...
It may have come from Moss.. sorry.
|I didn't think of just removing the access plate to install a pusher. Good idea!|
|I removed my "hand-chopper' in 2006 and replaced it with a 10" puller. My reasoning is that as a pusher, the motor would be continually exposed in rain.|
At the same time, I let in a VW Rabbit 85° thermostat into the header tank and wired all this to a Manual-Off-Auto switch under my dash.
In Auto, the fan cuts in at about 100°C and at first, that worried me, but it has never let me down, including some awfull stinking heat at the MG International in Gatlinburg, in 2006.
The only draw-back is that it brings the fan hub to within ¼" of the water pump hub, and if and when I have to change my fan belt, means loosening the rad ass'y. It draws abt 3 amps; so if I had to do it again, I'd probably install a 12" fan and would locate the thermostat at or near the bottom of the rad, all for better response.
This thread was discussed between 30/05/2013 and 05/06/2013
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