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MG TD TF 1500 - TF value/opinions?
|I checked out a TF 1250 today, numbers match, built 12/53. Well done but very old restoration. Good: Clutch perfect, strong runner, shifts well, minimal to no filler, wood appears to have been correctly replaced @ restoration, all weather gear present, wipers work, chrome decent, with some spider cracks, instruments had been restored by West Valley and work/look nice, turns work, no evidence of accident. Fair: door fit, paint (looks good from a distance). Bad: front and rear suspension rubber seals and bushings shot, leaking LR hub (between axle tube and bearing housing), at least one front wheel cyl must be leaking, front shocks leaking, rear tranny mount cobbled together ( I think a "j"- hook through the trans. case hole- very inventive), fuel line to rear has filter and 4 rubber segments, large 1/8" copper oil pressure line runs across front of battery box to home-made rubber section, then up right side of battery into dash (WTH?), right door check broken, windscreen to body and running board to wing rubbers perished, Cowl to bonnet rubber missing, repro bumpers with big gap between chrome and splash apron, and lastly the water pump pulley is very loose on the shaft. What do you think a car in this shape is worth as is? What would it cost to fix all mechanical things, and then what would it be worth? Hope this was not too long! The oil pressure was about 10 at very slow idle, up to 75 at 50mph. I suspect the cobbled line may be the cause? Thanks, George
|worst area of body, could be filler crack behind hinge? cracks in rb paint
|paint crack (one of the worst) and gap
|It's a 1250, not a 1500. Based on what you have described, this seems to be a car that looks somewhat better than it is, and that's the biggest problem. Owners find it hard to look beyond a skin deep shine, and ignore the mechanical problems that would drive us crazy - "Hey it runs fine, doesn't it?". That means they have high expectations for price. My guess is that it would cost about $2500 for a shop to fix what's mechanically wrong - nothing cosmetic. And of course, remember that you will find more wrong, not less.|
Considering what I have seen sell (and more instructively, NOT sell) recently, I would guess the car is worth somewhere between 11 and 13 now. Done mechanically? Maybe 15.
My $.02. Flame away!
|Checked eBay completed listing prices...a non-running "project" car went for over $11K, two other basket cases went for over $5K. |
The owner would be crazy to let this go for less than $15K in my opinion. Other than the transmission mount none of the other problems (including 10 psi at idle oil pressure) are much of a problem at all.
|Gene - wasn't the project car the red one in CA, a 1500, original and unrestored - repainted once, and with the original tools? 70k original miles, original upholstery and all there? That makes it very desirable in my book, and deserving of the price.|
|The necessary repairs could be done for a small cost if you do all the work yourself, paying a shop $75/hr. could make the repairs cost a few thousand. As far as I am concerned the low oil pressure at hot idle is of no concern. If it is burning oil then this would be of concern.|
If I could purchase the car for $15,000 or so I would jump at it. Depending on the atual condition of the wood, upholstery and chrome I might even go up to $18k.
The $11K project was ebay item 121119133729 (I'd post a link but it would be linked to my account and I've learned not to do that!). Nothing special that I can see.
|So Gene, what $ figure would you put on it, regardless of whether the prospective buyer (with my help likely) or a shop did the work? To me, most serious issues are fuel line, brakes, and the loose water pump pulley, but the rest should be fixed if you are going to drive it. George|
|Based on my TD (10 mos. younger)less than a year ago ($18K)in what I think was in better condition than the TF you describe and using Tom's and other's repair/restore estimates to get to a respectable good driver I'd guess $12K - $13K. Not counting the uninstalled Moss hood, I've put well under $1K in mine to keep it a good driver.|
Just FWIW. Jud
|J K Chapin|
|I think somewhere in the low 20's would me my guess. It is not a number 1 car, but not a true 4 either. Hagerty values show between 18-24 or so. JMHO.|
|Gene - yup, that's the one - the subject of a whole thread: Ebay TF. Jim Elliott in PA bought the car, and he was pretty excited to get it. Not a typical sale, and pretty close to a survivor.|
I'm with Hugh...$15 to $18k...
|One thing you didn't mention:|
By the vin ...was black and tan original to the car?
Just my preference that was the colour I wanted.
Dad's TF1500 was that color.
Thought not a 1500 I would have been all over this if under $15~$14K.
|VIN HDC, so was red originally. GEorge|
Missed that thread and the search function didn't find it for me.
|Gene - I went to the archives and searched for this phrase: "ebay TF" and a couple of them came up, one of which is the one we're talking about.|
|Check these out:|
This is the car: http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mg/tf/1587886.html
Any further thoughts? Interesting price climb in the past few months. George
First, I didn't realize this wasn't a private sale but rather a dealer is selling it (possibly on consignment?). So based on that we both know that the prices listed in magazines, online or dealer's lots are starting points, never absolutes. And to be honest, for a dealer that's not too bad of a starting point…it reflects a semi-realistic appraisal of the car to be sold while knowing full well that the chance of someone offering that amount is slim. Your problem is you have to find that rock bottom price that they're willing to take.
With the exception of the clutch being replaced there's not a huge dollar value in the "new" parts listed other than possibly the "engine management gauges(?) being rebuilt. Based on the work you've done with T-series you will easily be able to talk those prices down if they're thrown at you and really, how "new" is new? Personally I take the "brand new wood" comment with a bit of skepticism - well, make that a lot of skepticism…it may have been "new" 15 years or so ago so I'd use that as a negotiating point. And…you're negotiating with a dealer, not a private seller so you don't have to worry about "hurt feelings" when you lowball or point out problem areas.
Bottom line, George, is you're not buying the car for yourself…you're helping someone else buy it so it's going to depend on his pain level. I'd offer $18,500 initially and be prepared to end up around $21,500…hopefully lower but not a lot...dealers do have to make money!
It's not a bad looking car.
Hope this helps or at least isn't too far from where you're at on it,
|I also had not factored in that this was a dealer, so my suggestions are clearly lower than anyone else's - unreasonably low, it appears. I'm probably too close to TD's, not TF's. If the black car in George's last posting is indeed the very car being sold, the description of what has been done does change things. |
I agree that the recent spike is very interesting; I wonder on what they base their pricing - sales? listings? auctions?
|The car in the Hemmings classified above is missing the fender to fender cross bar. My TF did not have this bar when I got her. I didn't know any better at the time. I don't see it in the carburetor side view of the engine. |
This cross bracing part is absolutely essential to safe driving.
|Good spot Peter! Totally missed that. George|
|Considering that it's a TF and they are scarcer than TD's, somewhere between $ 18,000 and $ 22,000 seems about right.|
It's very unusual to see a TF priced in the teens, they price higher than TD's by a fair bit.
A TD in that shape would likely go for $ 13,000 to $ 16,000.
Wobbly water pump pulley might point to need for new water pump - it's the same pump as a TD and mine had this, it turned out to be shot bearings. Replacing the pump is a minor PITA with the radiator in place.
All in all it sounds like a decent running TF with average cosmetics.
One might offer in the mid teens to see what happens.
|I have to disagree Peter. Took mine off to fit the supercharger and after 20,000 road miles I see no consequence. Also had to remove the forward right hand latch assembly...also just fine.|
|L E D LaVerne|
|You know you always put more into them than you expect. I bought my little red TD for $17,300. I then replaced the wheel cylinders, rebuilt a front shock and minor repair on a rear shock. Rewired the tail lights, replaced the chrome buckets with reproductions from England, added electronic ignition and spin on oil filter conversion. I also installed new hoses. Finally, I recently bought new tires and had them shaved and balanced.|
Three weeks ago as many of you know I had my original crankshaft break at the first journal. No subsequent damage although the new forged crank from John Esposito and the connecting rod nearest the break is at the machine shop being checked out thoroughly. The crank is being checked for balance and tolerances and is also going to be polished.
I'm also replacing the original transmission with the five speed synchronized conversion. The entire affair will probably run around $8K on top of the $2600 I spent on tires etc as mentioned earlier. The great thing is after the engine tear down, it shows no sign of use. All of the internal components look as though they were just installed. Consensus is that the engine has very few miles on it.
Until the latest mechanical failure, I drove the car whenever it was above 35 and there was no chance of inclement weather. I might add that they were trouble free miles as well. When it gets back together, I plan on continuing that driving program because the car is just that much fun for my wife and I. We're still dating it seems.
Bottom line, whatever it takes to get the TF to your dream state, do it and enjoy it. You can't take it with you once the ride is over.
|R C Flowers|
|LaVern Could be mine is unusual. But the "wings flapped" a lot at 55 mph. It was unnerving. |
|R C. one thing I would highly recommend is join the lo cal club if you have not already done so. Lots more fun motoring with folks who have the same intrests in these great little cars. I cant tell you how much our club means to me and my wife. Since I joined we have had many a great time and continue to do so. We even have members in the Carolinas in our local club. We have also had folks from that area come to our Midwest GOF's. If you ever get to MN, first beer is on me.|
|I haven't seen any "flap" Peter...even at 100. But then that day I wasn't looking at the wings. Lots of days all day long at 75 plus.|
|L E D LaVerne|
|I've followed LaVerne when he was doing 75 - his wings don't need to flap...that TF is jet propelled.|
|Car was purchased for $21,500. Nice to have another T-series in the neighborhood. Thanks for the advice everyone! George|
|Boy, was I ever wrong! I should stick to what I know - whatever that is...|
|Damn...nailed it on the nose!|
Congrats to whomever bought it - see it next April at the GOF, George?
Did you purchase the car or, know who did? Is that information one could/should disclose? Hope so. Just curious. Congratulations to whomever!
|Jerry Chandler 1951 TD|
|Long time friend of family bought it, will be surprise gift for wife. Gene, as soon as she gets it I'm going to make up a parts list and help get it all sorted. Hopefully will be at GOF. I just hope my daughter's sorority father daughter weekend is not the same date...George|
This thread was discussed between 30/08/2013 and 06/09/2013
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