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MG TD TF 1500 - TF wing piping

What colour wing piping would have been on a Grey TF.
My car has red, was this correct with red interior trim.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Ray, If you can find one, look at Matthews car. His car is original as far as I know and I think it's Birch Grey. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Piping was body color. Matthew has the nicest original grey TF on the planet.

Frank

TF #1414 Birch grey
Frank Cronin

Body colure is "correct".
Some like the contrast of matching the interior, some do not.
Personally , I'm in that 1st group, knew it was wrong, but liked the way it looked. I think it accents the lines of the car.
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

After reading the post on Hemmings on the SA, there is a grey TF for sale there. Looks to me just the tub, wings, etc. were repainted but the interior is original.

The engine is gold. Does this mean this was a Gold Seal replacement engine? Never seen one before.

Nice looking car though. Missing the smaller diameter piping at the rad and side panels.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mg/tf/1692949.html

Frank

Frank Cronin

Not sure I have ever seen a gold seal in the flesh ...but pretty sure they were same colure as original engine.
Maybe just me ...but the fresh paint kind of scares me, not a car I would buy sight unseen. Looks a little too good...if that make sense.
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

Yes, matching piping. I replaced my original piping (except the side panel pieces) a few years ago and still have the remains. Email me if you need any details Ray. mbmagilton AT msn Dot com

The auction car looks like a nice example and very original, but still needs some details restored, like the sill plates and hinges. It has the original matching dash paint (including underscuttle paint) and tunnel carpet. I would have gone with red for the engine. Could be fragile for a driver, not knowing the maintenance history. Original wiring.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Gold Seal Engine



Christopher Couper

Matthew
look at the full length Tonnaeu, could this be a factory supply? looks like the 1/2 style at the back?

cannot work out how to copy the image from that site.
Rod Brayshaw

Rod,
I went to hymanltd.com and was able to drag images to my desk top.
JKB


J K Barter

How do we get the narrow piping for the front of the side panels and grill? Do we have to make it? PJ
Paul S Jennings

My understanding is that the factory supplied only 1/2 tonneaus and that all full tonneaus are aftermarket. At least that's what I've been told. Jud
J K Chapin

PJ,

Your going to have to make it. It is about 1/4" diameter.

This is a detail often missing on restorations to the TF.
Frank Cronin

Paul: Its really easy to make it. Cut a piece of regular piping to length. Pull out the cord that is inside. Get a piece of rope that is smaller (like 1/4 or 5/16) and thread it through the gap. Its smaller so it should not be a problem. Stick the piping in the car.

Since the panel holds the piping in place tightly you don't need to restitch it. Also you will need to tuck the end over per Matthews picture.
Christopher Couper


Thanks Frank and Chris. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Written in a TF 1500 sales Brochure (red cover) numbered HTC 11-15-54 and also described as "litho in USA" it states under "optional features" centre lock wire wheels, badge bar, luggage carrier and external rear view mirror, fog lamp, and full Tonneau cover.

Also in a blue panelled TF 1500 brochure HTC 1-14-54, the same "optional features" are listed.

The earlier TF brochures I have from 1953 do not offer the full Tonneau cover.

So my earlier question could the Gray TF have one of these original full Tonneau's?

Rod Brayshaw

The fabric is all wrong for a factory tonneau (and I am yet to be convinced/shown that any even left the UK). The full tonneau in the picture looks like it was based on a factory half tonneau with a similar rear cut and brown piping. By the condition of it, I doubt if it is more than 20 years old.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Oops. My comment regarding 1/2 tonneaus was limited to TDs. I don't know if the same applies to TFs. Jud
J K Chapin

I think your comments are correct for TF's too Jud.

Matthew.
M Magilton

If it was available and published in a factory Brochure then that is good enough for me.

Well years ago I did have a full length one from a TF1500 that we restored and back then in the 1980's I did not take a lot of notice, our upholster from memory did copy it for the car but he may not have kept the old original one but as he still does our work when next down south I will call in and ask him.

My enquiry was about the style of manufacture not the colour, (I know that is wrong) so if anyone has a memory please can they advise?

The two brochures I have are for the USA market HTC ?so they may not have been offered in other markets.
Rod Brayshaw

Rod: I have never seen an 'original' full tonneau cover but Joe Nam Nam of Hawthorne Seat Covers was the premier upholster for T cars (he may still do a little bit but he is retired). A well know car restorer and collaborator with Al Moss in the late 50s named Mike Goodman trained him. His work was original and perfect.

He made me a cover back in the early 70's which I sadly did not keep either. But I can tell you that it was reasonably the same as the full Robbins type of covers that Moss sells today. So much so that I bought one of those instead of having one custom made when it was time to replace it. I may have a custom one done again but use that as a pattern as the style is correct.
Christopher Couper

As I recall, the works never offered "Optional Accessories" for the TD or the TF. In the case of wire wheels for the TF, they came from the factory with them and were not dealer installed.

The works TF brochure I have shows options like a heater, wing mirrors and a a luggage rack; and with the added comment "ask your MG Stockist for more information". I assume a full tonneau would fall into this category.

I do know that the MG dealer in Montreal back in the 1950s, worked out a deal with the local (convertible) top-maker, to make tonneaus for them. The one I got for the TF was superb and lasted 'till 2008 when it was replaced with a Robbins black one at considerable cost. Again, as far as I know these were never offered by the works.

Incidentally, Dick Knudson has published a book containing all the brochures for all T-Series starting with the TA. Many of these brochures were market-dependent so the accessories and specifications differed from market to market, and these are all in Dick's book; available, I believe from Britbooks.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

As there is doubt in some minds, here is the page from the red Brochure I have for the TF1500. titled "there's a new (image of a bee) in its bonnet!"

As this was published I find it hard to comprehend that not one buyer of a new TF 1500 did not order a full Tonneau.

As I have said before I have seen one in the early 1980's from memory it was tan on the outside and salt and pepper on the inside with plastic piping, I am not sure if it had a piping across the back of the seat like the image from the gray TF. That's why I have asked the questions.

Chris, the image of the TF brochure on your TF site Publication No. H.& E. 53101 may not be a TF1500 Brochure. I have this same brochure and the cc listed on the back page of my copy is 1250cc.


Rod Brayshaw

Here is an image of the TF1500 Brochure in Blue.


Rod Brayshaw

Curious where this article was written. It refers to tools in the tool box under the HOOD. Misprint? If this was an official brochure, wouldn't it say BONNET? Just wondering. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Gordon: The factory certainly did offer accessories for the TD and TF based on the brochures we have and seeing some of these on various cars, my car has an factory luggage rack for instance.

But I suspect no cars in North America were ever 'ordered' by a consumer with factory accessories included. When a car was 'ordered' it was really just matched up with whatever shipments or inventory was already in place. If you wanted an accessory included the local dealer would get the item from the distributor and attach it to the car before you took delivery. Most likely they would try to talk you out of that option in favor of whatever they had on the shelf or could get a better price for.

When my father purchased our car the dealer was all over him to buy various accessories including a full tonneau and tire covers, different exhaust, rear view mirrors etc. but from the dealer, not the factory. He left the dealership with an altered car from start.

In the US there was a huge industry around accessories that dwarfed anything the factory could even comprehend. An because they could not control the dealers or distributors, sooner or later MG to control of the whole food chain after the TF.



Christopher Couper

Paul,
the brochure also refers to the Gas Tank so I presume it was a N America issue.
Two countries divided by a common language.;-)
Back on topic,I laid some grey tubing along the wing body joint, don't like it so staying red.
I don't see anybody selling grey piping anyway so maybe too few grey cars survive.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Ray, I had a local upholsterer sew up some battleship-grey piping for me after I had gone over it with the birch grey auto paint and a paintbrush. That is what you are seeing in my photo for the wing piping and seems to be an easy way to get a match.

Chris, I think you have nailed it with factory accessories. Too cumbersome and slow to get a factory full tonneau out of the UK and probably more expensive? Also with the factory TC and TD hoods and tonneaus perishing I think the TF owners would have been pleased to get a custom made vinyl full tonneau rather than the duck type the factory was offering. It is possible some full tonneaus did make it overseas, I just haven't come across one yet. All the period Aussie photos show full tonneaus in vinyl.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Chris (Couper),

You are partially right. The works did state that certain options were available - no argument here. But they did not come form Nuffields or BMC. The dealer had to order them from the factory, but the factory didn't supply them. It was a separate order and shipped by the manufacturer, not the factory.

I can tell you this with confidence, as at least in Canada, if a dealer required an inventory of radios for example, he placed the order with Nuffields/BMC and they in turn ordered it from Pye who shipped to the dealer who then installed it.

I have a (now retired) friend who was a Pye dealer, and he frequently got orders from Nuffields/BMC for radios, and he would then ship to and invoice the MG dealer.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

I decided to stick with red as it has been on the car for the 40 years we have owned it.
Matthew, I made up the grill section from the leftovers from the Moss kit, as you suggested. There was exactly the correct amount left over, is this where ("The whole 9 yards" expression came from) :-)
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Gord: I think our scenarios are roughly the same and I agree with you.

The distributorships, importers and dealers all evolved dramatically in the early 1950's starting with small mom and pop dealers who could sell any type of car and may not even had an MG badge in their dealership to eventually moving towards the model of integrated distributors/dealerships with tight branding and company control.

I tried to capture what I could about the NA dealers here:

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_america.htm#dealers

But the map is really telling. If you use Streetview and select most of the dealers when you don't see a new shopping mall or freeway, you find some pretty simple buildings and even houses which were clearly the same as it was in the 50's. If it was an 'dealership', it was probably selling Hudsons or Buicks primarily. I found the same in Europe and Australian and the UK too.

In the Nuffield and early BMC days it was definitely the wild west where a dealer was in complete control.

Ray: Sorry for stealing your thread. Good news about piping is that it is one item easily changed when and if you ever want to.
Christopher Couper

No problem Christopher,
the one thing I like about this site is the way it wanders in and out of subjects. I learn more about T Types every day.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

This thread was discussed between 28/10/2014 and 08/11/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

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