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MG TD TF 1500 - TF TOP DETAILS

I'm installing the top on the TF and getting a lot of
great detailed information from the Dave Braun site. But I do have a question regarding the stay straps. The top frame has holes that allign with the stay strap locations. Are the straps fixed to the top frame in these locatons? If so how?


Dan H.
Dan Hanson

Dan,

Thanks for the kind words. The stay straps should have reinforcements sown into them. The screws for the stay straps go UNDER the reinforcements which actually act as wear strips, through the stay strap fabric and into the rear top bow. Positions the straps on the rear top bow, and then forward to the front bow, and finally back ward to the rear hood mounting strip on the tub all the while assuring that the rear top bow is located in the 'pocket' below the rear seam and 'in' the extra flap material. Also, if you opt for rear snaps on the side stays and rear of the hood, I think I could have gotten by with one snap per stay.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Thanks Dave, So what I think you are saying is the head of the screw is between the reinforcement area and the stay strap. Nothing goes thru the reinforcement area and the finished side of the strap is facing down. What type of screw is used in this area? I don't know if it matters but the TF has two reinforcement areas per side. Should I use two screws per side? Or not necessary?
Dan Hanson

Yes Dan, the screw goes as you stated. I used regular phillips headed machine screws. Also, the TF is a three bow top so I would imagine that the second set of reinforcements would 'locate' the other top bow that might otherwise float. But I've not done one. coincidently, as we speak, I'm sorting out my side curtain arrangement on the two bow top, taping parts in place, bending a bit here and there, and contemplating how well I really need them to fit as I'm squishing the front up against the wind wings.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Thanks Dave, I just took a look and Yes the TF is 3 bow and the reinforcements do "locate" bow positions. You say you used machine screws so I'm assuming these go thru the top bows with nuts on the underside ?(interior) I too will be doing the side curtains after the top is completed. I would think the wind wings would cause some problems. I remember having a TR3 with the wind wings and had the same issue. I just removed them in the winter time. In the summer I don't remember ever having the top up. Had a full tonneau with center split zipper.
Those were the days.

Dan H.
D.E. Hanson

Sorry Dan,

I meant metal screws... no nuts. My misspoke.

Interestingly as I place my side curtains, I could have had my top about 3/4 to an inch lower on the tub to cause the side curtains to more correctly fit under the flap. I'm not real concerned because they never really did prior to the restoration, and I still found the side curtains moderately effective. However, even though I carefully measured the top bows mounting position per the instructions (All new wood, all new interior, and not much to go on) I could have gone lower.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

I was fortuneate enough to be able to use the existing wood and found the original screw holes for the frame brackets. This is where I used the lipstic trick. What I did is put the three screws in the original holes not quite home , with panels removed of course, and put a smear of red lipstick on the screw heads. Then take the new panel and carfully placed the panel to the correct position not yet touching the screws, then push to make contact with the screw heads. Remove the panel and the lipstick marks appear on the back of the panel. Push an awl thru the marks and you are dead on location. Works like a charm.
Rule no.1 The lipstick must be given to you from your wife and tell her what it is for.
Rule no.2 Once you use the lipstick for this purpose don't try to give it back.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

Well, the plus side is that I have a bit of extra room for my head when the top is up (which it isn't often, but a lot more often than the side curtains in place!

Nice lipstick trick... So where do you store the lipstick for future use so it doesn't melt? I would imagine bearing grease would do the same thing...

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

top pictures

LED DOWNEY

more

LED DOWNEY

and

LED DOWNEY

Thanks Laverne,
A little different approach on yours. I see the screws are going thru the strap and the reinforcement areas exposing the screw heads, where as Dave's straps are flipped with strap finished side to the interior and no exposed screw heads.
What I noticed last nite on the straps is that there is a "centering dot" under 2 of the three reinforce ment areas on the strap. Perhaps some kind of clue here?
Thanks for the pics.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

Don't count on anything I did as being correct Dan. It's the way the old Amco was fastened and made the most sense to me. If I remember correctly the rear most bow is suposed to have the screw going through the strap,bow and hood itself. Couldn't bring myself to do that.
LED DOWNEY

I left that screw off for the same reason...don't seem to have a problem without it!
gblawson(gordon)

LaVerne,

The AMCO hoods did have a screw all the way through the hood, strap and bow at the rear. The Moss hoods don't specify that requirement. For my money, the ability to completely pull the hood off the bows and fold it without catching it between the bows is worth not having a screw fix the hood to the bow at that location. Hiding the screw below the reinforcement did make sense to act as a wear strip.

Dan, Moss makes use of centering dots on their weather equipment. If your hood has centering dots, I would tend to check those first to see if they yield a correct installation. They probably are there for a purpose, and worth examining.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Dave, It appears that the dots under the reinforcment areas would tend to direct me in the way you have described your installation. I can't imagine putting a screw thru the canvas either. I don't think the TF's came from the factory with vinyl hoods? Perhaps the exposed thru screw is an aftermarket installation procedure?
Dan Hanson

Dan,

The TF did not come with a vinyl hood from the factory. An AMCO hood was aftermarket vinyl, such as was on my car prior to restoration. It served the car well for 25 years.

dave
Dave Braun

The hoods were all a pale biscuit coloured canvas, two layers sandwiching a rubber layer, not a very good quality by todays standards. I still remember the original hood for my car when my Father owned it. I have retained the original webbing which looks similar to the webbing used under the cushions of old chairs and has a pinkish-biscuit colour like the hood bows. The screws on the rear bow went right through from the outside. The screws on bows one and two only go through the reinforcing section of the webbing

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

One thing my installer did on my hood.
(a real nightmare, for those that remember that fiasco, I have a 2 bow top that has welds in frame making it a strange size)
I digress ....he put "girl crow" ...the "soft fuzzy" part of hook and loop tape on top of my rails. Keeps the rails from making "rub marks" that show through the cloth top with age. So far it works like a champ!

Dave Braun: How do you explain "bearing grease stains" on your collar to the better half?

Laverne: That looks a lot like the hood I replaced when I purchased Izzy ..did about as much good keeping the rain out!

Cheers,
David 55 (2bow) TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David,

It's even harder to explain the bearing grease stains on the edge of my coffee cup.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Thanks all,
What a great source of information.
I checked in the original "T" series by Clauser, and it appears that the installation is as what Matthew is describing. I think in keeping with originality I will swallow hard and put the screw thru the top thru the rear bow with a chrome screw and finishing washer.
Now another question, just to be sure with frame positioning, with just the frame installed and in the down position should the frame assembly fit "into" the rear area or lay on top of the rear rail?
Dan Hanson

Originally the complete frame and hood fitted inside the rear body tub and the factory half tonneau would lay almost flat on top. You may find this a bit of a squeeze with the thicker fabrics we have today. I see a lot of tonneaus now have tailoring that allows the hood to sit up a few inches. Some hood chafing is hard to avoid when it is squashed flat. I place a roll of clean sheet inside the folded rear window plastic to protect it.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Dave B, question: do you have a 2 or 3 bow top, was it from Moss w/Moss directions? George
George Butz

Dan,
One thing I would have done differently (and may change someday):
Forgive me for not remembering who on the BBS came up with the idea.
Around the rear of the tub instead of "tacking" the hood to the tub, use "snaps" under the flap. Nobody will see them and it allows access to boot when your hood is up from outside the car. Wish I had done this but I "learned" this trick after mine was installed!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Thanks Matthew, That certainly make the most sense.
Dan Hanson

One more "good trick" I learned watching Jack install my hood (this guy was awsome..expensive but worth the lessons learned!)
It must have been 120 degrese in his shop with all the heat lamps he had surounding the hood...he had sand-bags on clamps he used to streach the hood before fastning t down. He had several other "T" types in his shop (he did not install their hoods)and most fit like "socks on a duck". Even with the problems of having a most strange frame (2 bow/ welded) the fit on mine is to die for. I get complimates from other "T" owners on it all the time on the fit.
Cheers,
David
David Sheward

George, you're right, it is a two bow top, and the Moss directions did specify a screw and finish washer through the top material into the rear bow. And that is how my AMCO top was installed as well. As you can see from my website, I skipped this. It does make folding the top easier to not have it screwed to the bow.

I followed Schach's instructions more than the Moss set.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Hello all of you, - this thread has been interesting to follow. Thanks.
As I am also about to install a new hood on my TF.
Hood bought in UK, NTG service. Double Duck.
There are very few TF's here in Norway to use as a "sample".
I have tried to find some closeup detailed pictures or
instructions on the internet. Still looking . . .
Led's pictures were useful.
I am at the moment working on the wooden front rail.
Frames are installed ok.
I am in doubt how to finish the windscreen-front-flap on each side of the woodrail. Is it just cut in line with the vertical windscreen frame on each side? Or is there a certain "correct" way to do this ?

Thanks,
Bjoern Erik Johannessen
Kristiansand, Norway.

B.E. Johannessen

DaveB, The reason your top ended up too high is that the Moss directions are wrong for the 2-bow TD top (about 3/4" too high). I went through the same thing. Someone else on the board pointed that out to me. No way in the world my side curtains would work, had to lower it. (since all new wood/panels, no reference marks, and the originals had a dozen or more holes). I used one of those vinyl repair kits to repair the extra holes- barely noticable, but still not happy that happened. George
George Butz

George, Holy cow... I figured they were wrong for my car, didn't stop to think they were wrong for every car! My top is almost exactly 3/4 inch too high at the measurement point compared to the side curtains. Unfortunately, I like the extra height for my extra tall body. I figure I will still meet the side curtains, they just aren't going to go under the flap. I'll only mount them under the most dire circumstances. I find that the wind wings and the top are enough to handle most rains.

warmly, and thanks!
dave
Dave Braun

Bjoern: Yes, the front flap outside the windscreen is cut in line with the sides of the windscreen outer edge.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Bjoern, I think the answer you want is possibly on my website as the front wood bow and covering for the TD installs the same as the front bow for the TF. Go to http://www.dbraun99.com/ select the mg td restoration photosite and select weather equipment.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Been away from the site awhile so I did not get my 2 cents of originality into this equation. Some years ago I had my to fabric replaced under my supervsion, so as to "not" get the details wrong.
re: Bows 1 & 2. The screws and washers holding the webbing in place are brass, w/sight oval head as is the washer. with slotted drive.
Bow 3. Has bolts that go thru the frame and have a square nut on the back side. Bolt head is same as the front ones.
Webbing is cotton with a two panel herringbone weave and fairly thin. on bows 2 & 3 are reinforcing strips, on bow 3 the bolt head is next to a double seam on the top.
The web is held in place at the rear by 2 phillips head woodscrews and two of the conical washer. On the windscreen end it is tacke onto the wood header frame and the fastening is hidden by the top.
See pix for details

colin stafford

...And Colin's photo shows 'the' correct hood bow colour in case anyone was wondering.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

That bow color is yet another of the MG paint mysteries. Another that's very dificult to match.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

Dan, I at first used Moss's top bow/side curtain frame paint, kind of a slightly brownish-tan. For whatever reason, it seemed to chip really easily. I ended up repainting with Rustoleum American Nutmeg. Resonably durable, a touch lighter in color than the Moss paint. http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=1 George
George Butz

George I too used the American Nutmeg color for the bows and window frames. I also used it for the bolts, screw heads and various interior parts that were to be painted interior color. A very good match for the buscuit interior.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

I have a question; a while back I purchased a 2-bow set of side curtains and from the material it looks to be all original but the frames are painted a kind of olive drab green color, much like what you would see on a military vehicle.
Has anyone else ever seen any frames painted this unusual color that were original?
A Taylor

The colour in my image is pretty true to the real color. I have never seen anything that looked like olive drab.
colin stafford

Hi All,

Colin's Hood Bow colour is spot on original for a TF.I also have never seen the olive green colour.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
Rob Grantham

The only olive drab on hood bows that I have seen were on an early TC. serial 07??. It had the firewall and curtain frames in the same olive drab.
Sandy
SANDY SANDERS

Hey Sandy, I think it's about high time you sent a picture to Gordon of you next to some British machinery.
Here Here mumble mumble mumble.
LED DOWNEY

Sandy, that must have been one of those British military TC's used by the Coldstream Guards after WWII.
colin stafford

Here is a pic of the unusual color side curtains I purchased.

Richard Taylor

And another pic

Richard Taylor

And heres a third. Maybe the paint has just turned this color with age but, even the canvas seems to be a kind of olive green color.

Richard Taylor

Hmmm...Richard's sidescreen metal FRAMES seem to be a very similar colour to Colin Stafford's very original TF's frames.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

The "Green-Duck" looks like Gordon's tonneau when he first got his car also ....doesn't it?
Maybe I'm wrong?
David
David Sheward

I have the original side curtains for my car (not used) and they look just like the one's you call olive green. Actually they are the same colour as the bows. I would post a picture, as its really difficult to get them out of storage.
Those are orig. frames. Check as see if you can find aome nomentclature on the celluloid. It s kind of hard to see.
colin stafford

Could the celluloid have been replaced? Normally it would be brown by now.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

I was looking at the most recent issue of Sacred Octagon and on pages 28 and 29 is the article about Dave Northrup's fantastic TD find. The pictures showing his original side curtains look to be spot on for the color of my purchased frames. Were the bows originally the same color because usually they look like a much lighter tan/brown in restorations.
Richard Taylor

This thread was discussed between 15/07/2009 and 11/08/2009

MG TD TF 1500 index

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