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MG TD TF 1500 - What's Wrong with this TC Contest

This nicely restored and "correct" TC has a lot that is NOT correct - I see these things right away, and am curious to know what else eagle-eyed viewers find:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MG-T-Series-TC-/221908222787?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33aac2c343&item=221908222787

wrong carbs
missing air cleaner
missing slow-running bracket
Arnolt valve cover
nerf bars
wrong sump
wrong interior mirror
broken dash light
dash panel lacking lettering
2 tail-lanps (at least the correct D-type with the bar!)
wrong door panels and seats
wrong spark plug caps
missing plug wire separator?
chrome generator band
flimsy wiring to fuel pump
chrome draft tube clamp
strange oil filter hose
fuel line held to chassis with zip-tie

Tom Lange

t lange

Later type fog lamp, black interior upholstery and toneau wrong , non-original step down headlight rims (from the original8" to 7"),not sure the sump is wrong however. Decent car, just not a $42K car IMHO. George
George Butz

Missing side rear view mirror
David
D. Sander

Camber looks out on the fronts, well on one side. Is that a chain underneath by the pedals? near the lifting arm?
mog

The chain is correct for clutch actuation.
The sump appears to be correct.
Generally a nice car.
Peter (TC9356)
Peter Malkin

I have two TCs in the shop right now, both of which have smooth-bottom sumps. I thought the rubbed sumps were later?

Tom Lange
t lange

Wrong color (I don't like green).

Tim
TW Burchfield

Both doors need a turnbuckle. Gaping at the bottom ain't correct. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This is one of the few TC's I have seen with the correct factory steering wheel.
My previous TC had a ribbed sump as does my TF, however a sump I bought off a TD owner is not ribbed.
Don TF 4887 TC XPAG 7730 (with ribbed sump)
D J Walker

Tom L. - I think all TC's sported a finned sump like the 53 TD's & TF's. Difference was the TC bottoms angled to the center and TF's were finned flat bottom. I don't recall ever seeing a TC sump flat bottomed unless maybe the very last handful. Flat bottomed non finned sumps were TD's starting from the early ones thru 52 and 53 was 6 qt, I don't recall the TC being 6 qt. Someone please tell me if I stand to be corrected, I've been wrong many times before, three times in marriage!! Art Lewis hopefully will see this thread and comment, he has one of the last TC's off the line. FOG
FOG Frank

I suspect TCs had a ribbed sump,TDs a smoothie,and TFs had the larger,improved pick up, ribbed aluminum sump.

The rear,right hand guard(fender) is set more inwardly toward the centre of the car compared to the left hand
rear guard.It also looks to be longer.

I always find the reference to having to use the dreaded
'turnbuckles' to fit a T type door interesting.If the tub is built correctly with accurate wood shape on both the door frame and the wood slam pillar,turnbuckles are not ever necessary.

Long live TDs and TFs!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Sump looks original to me. In 52 years of playing with TCs, I have never heard of a TC with smooth sump (as original). TDs and Ys have smooth sump with idler peg for clutch actuation. Morris 10 smooth with no idler.

It looks like a nice car. There are many things which are not original but most would appear to be easily changed to original if an owner desired.

I don't use the word "correct" .... "Original" or "not original" I think are better words. Original describes the way the car came out of the factory .... and some people like them like that. I love to see an original car, but I also like them as they have been modified to suit the owner .... handle better or have more power. (This website is constantly involved with roller rockers, special cam profiles, compression ratios and non-Shorrock supercharging) so most seem to like mods.

I love the way TCs can be original, slightly modified, highly modified or full-blown race cars. Cecil Kimber started MGs by modifying Morris cars to suit special purposes. The racing heritage of MG (as described by John Thornley in "Maintaining the Breed") was constant modification to make the car suit the purpose. So modifications are not incorrect but non-original.

Enough philosophy for now.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Thanks for all the sump information, which is useful and educational, as always.

Tom Lange
t lange

My '53 TD, 29350 has a finned sump.
MAndrus

Hi Tom,

Even though I know little about a TC I think these postings are wonderful. Better brain exercise than my wife's daily crossword. There are a few issues raised though. Sometimes a classic car ends up with a dealer whose normal stock is no older than 4 years. They think a chromium plated dynamo band is original and looks great. Then there are classic car dealers and owners who should know what is correct and what isn't. I subscribe to "Let the Buyer Beware" and believe it is appropriate for enthusiasts to provide information so a prospective buyer can make the correct decision.

Jan T
J Targosz

Didn't see a photo of the engine, anyone know why? PJ
Paul161

Paul - Just click on Tom's highlight in his first message that will take you to the EBAY site. Then just run down the pictures shown till you come the very last pics. FOG
FOG Frank

TCs have ribbed sumps. Never smooth ones.

Not sure what all the nitpicking is about, this is a lovely car! Far nicer, more correct and more original than mine was when I got it.

DJ, my TC also has the original home market wheel. I almost changed it to a Brooklands when I first bought the car, thinking I wanted something different. Then I realized just how different having an original was. I've only seen a handful of them in all the years I've had the car!
Steve Simmons

OK. Reality Check.

Displayed my car at 4 concours this year. Did not enter purposefully in 2 cases and was denied in the other 2 because I had won previously.

So I used the opportunity to causally talk to judges (and of course the public). In at least two cases judges asked me questions about what they saw on various cars as being correct or not, but I did not pro offer any information or guidance.

Admittedly the judges have no clue what is right or wrong on any of these cars unless they get lucky (or unlucky for the car owner) and come across a model they are really familiar with. They are working under gross assumptions and knowledge (like basic differences between a TC, TD and TF for example). Things like what is correct on a TF 1500 versus 1250? Not going to happen. Correct color of your sidescreens? No. Number of pleats on your seats? No again.

I was shocked by cars that won significant positions and others that did not qualify for placement until I really figured out what was going on.

Basically they look for quality, reasonable authentic characteristics, appearance, attention to detail and just compare subjective qualities from one car to another. Sometimes when they bounce from one car to another its to just convince themselves why they thought one car looked better than another. Once a judge told me that my car won over another because it was shinier! Let me tell you that part was moot. The other car was a disaster from an originality perspective but that never came into play.

So while I am the biggest advocate of correctness, this is a personal goal, and one I am willing to share with anyone. But the average judge and buyer or admirer is clueless and probably does not care.
Christopher Couper

Steve - nitpicking only because the dealer went out of his way in the description (and on the telephone) about how "correct" the car was, what a painstaking restoration it was, and how all factory parts were used.

My customer looking for a VERY nice TC originally asked me to look at the eBay listing, and wanted to know how show-winning it would be as it sat. I told him not very as it was, but with $6500 more it could be. He decided that paying $50,000 for a TC was more than he had to spend.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

My 53 YB has a finned sump. Larry
Larry Brown

The real fun with the TC sumps is weather or not they should be painted red like the engine. My late TC was never painted, as shown through electron microscope evaluation. Others claim they were all painted, and others say some were some not. I think some were some not. Have known people who were asked to judge because they had knowledge of specific autos. Depends on the show, who is putting it on, etc. Interesting about TC is there were many variations of different things, where some later MG's it is all pretty cut and dry, ie boring
D mckellar

I wonder how they get a complete ownership record on all the cars they sell?
N Tesla

If I ever got to a show where the only difference was a painted sump or not I might worry. Most of the time something else sets the car off way before that.

The other day a winning car had painted carburetors, all new bolts and a fair amount of chrome where it did not belong.
Christopher Couper

As we all know, if it's a popular vote show, throw all the correctness aside, as the more chrome, shinny paint and the club with the most members there get top billing. That happened at Gburg in 06, there were a few people upset at the awards dinner because of it. Concurs cars were judged by regular judges, the rest by the public. PJ
Paul161

This thread was discussed between 14/10/2015 and 27/10/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

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