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MG TD TF 1500 - When does a 30 minute job take two days?

When it involves a 53 year old MG!!
Saturday afternoon, time to change the plugs, insect the wires, cap & rotor and set the timing on the TD...30 minutes, 45 tops. Inspect cap & rotor, both are still in good shape, pertronixs needs nothing of course, plug wires are still good for this season, I'll change cap, rotor & wires next spring...time elapsed 15 minutes. Take out old plugs & inspect. Nice burn patterns, no oil or fuel, all plugs are in good shape. I'll replace with new plugs but while plugs are out, set timing. Hook up test light & complete, all is well let's close up & have a beer, time elapsed 35 minutes. Cap on, clip up spring clamps that hold distributor cap and....the left spring clamp goes shooting off onto the floor. Get down under the car, find spring and small pin that holds it to the distributor. No matter how I try, it is impossible to replace with the distributor in the car, only option is to remove it and fix on the work bench. Manage to pop the pin back in on the work bench, seemed tight enough, replaced the distributor in the car, set timing and replace cap...spring goes flying off again! Take distributor out of the car, take to work bench, clean and prepare to solder pin into base. Where the hell is my solder? (yes, I'm a bit PO'd at this point!) No solder anywhere, off to the hardware store to get solder, so far I'm pushing 2 hours. Back from the hardware store, fire up the soldering iron (I have an electric iron)...a lot of smoke begins to come out of the heated tip, somehow oil has gotten down into the element. Take out the small set pin in the base and remove the tip, clean the whole inside and get out all the oil, replace tip and ....no set pin. I'm sure I'll find it in a couple of days, but it's no where to be found now, and of course the soldering iron won't work without the pin to hold in the tip. Off to the hardware store again to find a set pin, which by some freak of nature, they actually have (only thing that has gone right so far!)Back to the garage where I can now solder the small pin into the base of the distributor so the spring clip stays on. Replace the distributor, set timing, replace everything and prepare to fire up the engine...time elapsed 3.5 hours (it's now dinner time) Fire up the engine and ....jeez, something is horribly wrong, backfiring, missing, spitting through the carbs...what the hell have I done now???? Must have screwed up the timing...take out the plugs, hook up a light and manually turn the engine with the crank...lights coming on & off about 10 degrees from where it should be (should have run this test prior to putting everything back together). Perhaps I put the distributor in wrong the second time...#1 on compression stroke, TDC, rotor not pointing to #1 spark plug post....there's the problem! Fix that, set timing, turn the engine over a few times with the hand crank while test light still hooked up to check my work (it's now getting dark & I've had no dinner) Finally ready to finish up, put the cap back on and the OTHER spring clip falls off...AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH! I'm done for the night!!! Next morning I remove the distributor, solder in the other pin, replace & time (making sure to put the dizzy in correctly!) close up & fire the car up...runs like a top, but I can swear I can hear the car laughing at me.
They say working on our cars is therapy, but sometimes working on our cars can drive us to therapy!!

R Dougherty

Must have been something in the atmosphere over the US on Saturday. I had the same (similar) experience. Got my distributor back from Rebuild with Jeff at Advanced Distributors in MN. Looked like new! Had everything all set up to put back in, and I was certain it was oriented correctly. 10 minute job. Start her up, and pop, pop. Well that can't be good. Reset to the timing mark for #1. Checked the orientation of the rotor...ooops not pointing to #1. Pull the dizzy, re-orient and fire her up. Runs fine. Grab my new Innova digital timing light to set timing at idle. Set 8 degrees on the digital window and aim. Timing light strobes, and timing is to far advanced. Grab the dizzy to rotate it, and the timing light defaults back to reading voltage! Try 10 more times...same thing. Can't make it hold the advance setting. Read the manual again, all is correct. Try 10 more times..no luck. Call the Innova tech support. They're closed on Saturday. Try timing agin and finally find a "sweet spot" on the number one plug lead and it holds advance reading. Get timing to 8 degrees. Call wife to rev car to 3000 RPM. She, by some miracle gets it to 3000 and holds it. Advance looks good as it revs up. Set 30 degrees on the timing light and aim. Cr-p! No more sweet spot. Readout goes back to volts. Try and try again, no luck. So much for Saturday morning. I'll be calling Innova for sure Monday! Or, maybe it's just due to Global Warming.

Larry

L Karpman

I'm a great believer in the American vernaculated phrase " If it aint (SP?) broke don't fix it"
Geoff Love

I'm a great believer in that too Geoff, but often I can't help myself :-) However, as for my distributor, in my mind excessive wobble in the cam shaft, worn out bushes, worn out springs that caused 22 degrees of advance at idle, fit the definition of "broke." :-)))

Larry
L Karpman

It is SO refreshing to know this happens to others also. I am slowly learning to always tripple the time I think it will take me. It is amasing how many little things crop up that require you to

1. Spend hours looking for the tool that you know you just had (my trick, Go to the last place you went to when you left the shop.

2. Spend hours looking for the part/screw/nut/washer/spring that fell on the floor.

3. Spend hours searching through all your parts bins because you know you have a spare, but just can't find it.

4. Run to the hardware store for that one little widget you need only to find

a. They do not have it
b. The space for the piece you want is empty
c. The one they have has to be modified to work for your application.

5. Get home to find you forgot the second part you went for.

6. Break or loose a part that you can only get from one of the MG dealers.
BEC Cunha

My wife says that based on her observations, all my estimates take the next unit up: 15 minutes = 15hrs, minimum; 2 hours = 2 days,; 2days = 2 weeks, etc. Those are, to quote the flat rate books, "for undamaged cars in reasonable condition. Extra time should be allowed for damage, rust, or earlier poor repairs."
FRM
FR Millmore

All of the above sounds alot like a list I once read about Murphy's Laws and related supplements. I thought I had a copy, but I can't find at the moment. Lou
Lou Van Koningsveld

Two more answers to the original question:
Always
When things are going better than usual
FRM
FR Millmore

After a liftime working as an experimental physicist it has been determined that the true scientific solution of the time required for any task is to take the best realistic estimate of the time required for the job (including the Murphy's law factors) and multiply by pi ( ie: 3.14159) to get the real time.

BEC Cunha has approximately confirmed this experimentally with his triple the time (3 x), a few more trials and he will reduce the experimental error and converge on the true value of pi
Don Harmer

R D - Don't take this wrong, but I was laughing out loud near the end there. Not AT you of course, but at the fact that we've all been there.

It is good to know we're not alone. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

How many of us saw the second spring clip part coming?
Stan Griffis

Oh boy I love this "confession time". Its so much about reality and I could add a long list of look alike experiences. Isn't it a wonderful thing that even such attempts do not make us stop MGT-ing. Must be very very powerful!!! Greetings, Huib
Huib Bruijstens

You might be on to something Don! The value of PI is very close to the multiplier my wife uses to adjust my time estimates. Now, if I could provide a better estimate of the Murhpy factor...

Too bad it isn't limited to my MG time. It seems all of my projects follow this "t" x "PI" = "actual time" rule.

Oh well, all this talk about PI is making me hungry.
Evan Ford - TD 27621

Evan-
My wife's formula includes the Murphy coefficient; what we don't know is whether it is additive or multiplicative to Pi! I personally think it's an exponent.

And another house rule is "eat pi(e) or die!"

FRM
FR Millmore

Well:

I bought my TD in April of '05, thinking I'd be on the road in six or eight weeks - by July 1st at the latest. It's true, I might make July 1st, just two years later, is all.

For example: The shop that was supposed to paint my body [now down to marvelously rebuilt bare metal shell and perfect wood] is being forced out of business by our local county because they're running a business on agriculturally zoned land. Hmmm: Can't put the body on the chassis if it's not painted, can't put the interior in the body neither, Can't build a roll bar if there's nuthin' to measure against. Wiring harness - whatEVR.

Note to John C: Know any good body shops out by Stony Plain or Spruce Grove?

Ahh, the list goes on - my pal just bought a Kawasaki KLR 650, and he figures that the reason the KLR chat sites are so small and our is so big is because all the KLR guys do is go riding - they're to busy spinning wheels to talk.

Does this mean we're doing something absolutely right - or totally wrong?

Back to the garage - how to get a hidden radio into that nice Moss arm rest... ...now could the speakers just fire left and right out the arm rest like an E-Jag???

Dave

Dave Jorgensen

Thought of doing that with the speakers, but if your arm rest is the same size as mine (mines home made and about 5" wide) there just isn't enough room...)
Trust you have switched to 'neg earth'?
gblawson - TD#27667

The Pi factor applies to all estimates.
The Murphy factor must also include the factor of two when a deadline is imposed, as the deadline approaches this becomes exponential.

A special set of Murphy's Laws come into play when applied to a T car in addition to the universal "If anything can go wrong it will".

They include: The more awkward and difficult a bolt or nut is to reach, the higher the probobility it is frozen by rust; the corrillary, the harder it is to put the new nut ar bolt back in place ( allow 45 minutes to put a nut on a stud or bolt);
When you are under the car, the wrench you just had in your hand has vanished, and you cannot find it without crawling out and searching for 45 minutes.
Any part that you need, normally in stock, has just run out and you must wait until the next parts container arrives from overseas (~ 6 months)

etc.

But Pi stiil controls!
Don Harmer

The 'inner' portion of a tire is actually magnetic...any nut or bolt that you drop will automatically roll under the car and be pulled back under the tread on the inside of the tire!!!!
Any British 'spring' used in our cars has two positions... 'in place and tight', or under the workbench in the only 2" deep crack in an otherwise perfect floor!!!
Any assembly being held in place by more then 4 bolts cannot have any three bolts tightened down... all must be tightened sequentually (?) or the last bolt will not fit!!!!
gblawson - TD#27667

Yeah Gord:

Negative ground and 60 amp alternator [don't anybody hit me; the alternator is made by ...Mitsubishi] Mechanical tach is now electric, real 3-speed heater motor and heated seats - Cecil Kimber must be rolling in his grave over all this nonsense.

Now given what you're all saying about Murphy's Law, there will have to be enough residual positive ground ionized neurophotons left in the chassis to short something just out of pure spite - the Prince of Darkness may be banished but He is not dead...

And you're right Gord - armrest is too narrow for speakers and a radio. Maybe radio in the glovebox and speakers in the armrest? I know! How about a big bass subwoofer under the tonneau cover?

Okay, I'll stop now, before one of you lobs a [deserved] grenade my way.

Cheers,
Dave J.

pps: Maybe for another thread, but, in the last Moss Brit Motoring ad/propaganda/fun magazine, they said something about some TD having flow-through cool air in the foot wells. Aside from the obvious jokes about drafty cockpits, do any of you know how on earth that could be accomplished without a total butchery of the tub?
Dave Jorgensen

Dave J-
8 weeks by my wife's rule is 8 months, x pi is two years. QED - but you are considerably ahead of most of us!
FRM
FR Millmore

re the origional issue: piR2 = circumference = 2 really small cotter pins
L.A. Leclerc

This thread was discussed between 15/04/2007 and 20/04/2007

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