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MG TD TF 1500 - Windscreen

I continue my quest for a late TD Windscreen frame and glass(center mounted wiper motor), with decent chrome. Chrome need not be concours, but still needs to be nice. If anyone has a line on one of these, please let me know.

TIA

Larry
L Karpman

Larry, try Ron Boisvert, an occasional contributor to this forum. I was at Ron's a couple of weeks ago and bought a late head from him. He has a huge assemblage of TD parts. Wouldn't surprise me if he has what you're looking for. He's seaweednh@comcast.net or 978-312-1594.
Bud Krueger

I have a frame, early TD not center mount motor.
Len Fanelli

Larry, If your quest for a nice windscreen does not bare fruit, I have what is probably a complete set of components (in need of plating), including an old glass (if needed for a pattern) as well as a wiper motor. I haven't tested the motor and someone painted the cover red, but it does mount in the center.
Steven Tobias

Larry,

A windscreen is relatively simple to disassemble, and the parts are solid, so after stripping the chrome, the parts can be buffed without a lot of expertise. I had mine rechromed with everything else I had done, but I doubt they contributed much to the overall cost.

The key to the glass is to give the glass company the old piece and have them cut the new piece to match, including slight indentations in the shape where the screws protrude.

For reassembly, you will need a new gasket. The Moss screws are too long, so cutting each one down using a 10-32 nut to rethread is probably advisable. There are some internal spacers and mounting bars that need to be assembled in order and can be used even if they are broken, but the corner brackets may be rusted and should be replaced. Finally, the wiper motor wiring should be replaced.

I appreciate your desire to get a reasonably decent chromed windscreen, but if you can't get one, the alternative isn't that difficult.

warmly
dave
Dave Braun

Thanks all. Bud, I have sent an email to Ron. I'm sure I've bought parts from him before. Steven and Len, I may be contacting one of you if my efforts fail.

Dave, thanks for the info on the hardware, etc. As I drive my car year round, I hate to put it down for weeks or months. Normally plating takes forever, at least around here. So my philosophy, and I may be all wet on this, is usually to find a suitable replacement part and sell my old part once swapped. No down time. It would be different if I were doing a full restore, and could send parts out well in advance.

Thanks again to all

Larry
L Karpman

Hmmmm... None of my business but,

Larry, why wouldn't you get a used one, replate it, while driving with the one currently on your car, and then swap it out?

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

here's another thought, use another old frame and windscreen while you have the original done. Have an early TD assembly and glass that could get you by and return it, it's just sitting on the shop shelf! Windscreen wipers are just for looks anyway, unless you live in a state that has inspections. Fortunately, Ct. shutdown vehicle inspections years ago, for the life of me I don't no why (except for corruption), and as long as your lights are working, you have it made.
Last summer a local cop pulled up behind my TD at a light, and only informed me out of a grill speaker that my brake lights weren't working. I waved to him thank you and I drove home unmolested. Found an early switch in parts, but added a dash indicator light to let me no if brake lights are still working. Good insurance. Think I have picture. Bob
Sorry, but its that little thing under the center dash which includes the turn signal switch (its an early TD#1720) that didn't come with turn signals, next is the small brake light indicator light, and to the right is the windscreen wiper switch, to stop wipers that would never turn off. All quite functional and satisfactory at this point, and may stay that way. Part of the 70's thinking.

R.AF. Robert Finucane

Dave & Robert, thanks. You have accurately described my option #2. My thinking goes like this (again I may be all wet):

Option #1. Buy a new or cosmetically and/or mechanically acceptable part, put it on the car, and sell the ugly/broken part I have now.

Option #2. Buy an ugly part and have it redone. Place it on my car when it's redone, and then sell my ugly part.

Option #3. When all else fails, pull the ugly/broken part off my car and have it redone or repaired, and accept any down time it may cause.

In my original post on this thread, I was still persuing Option #1. That said, I have bid on all suitable (late TD) windscreen frames on eBay over the last year, and have either been outbid or dropped out of the bidding because of the outrageous prices being bid.

Robert I appreciate your generous offer of the loaner, but unless I hear back from a vendor that I contacted yesterday, I will be taking Steve Tobias up on his offer and buy the late TD one he has and have it rechromed.

Texas still has an inspection, but no smog checks for vehicles over 25 years old. So, the wipers must work. But, if your car didn't come with seat belts from the factory, none are required.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Larry, another option -- It's going to be some time before I get anyway near the windscreen area of 'the53'. You're welcome to borrow the whole kit and kaboodle until you get yours done. The wiper motor isn't functioning, but that shouldn't be a problem (armature windings are broken).
Bud Krueger

Not sure if this is as good as you want.

COMPLETE mg td Windshield/Windscreen Frame MGTD
Item number: 280313121765
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COMPLETE-MG-TD-Windshield-Windscreen-Frame-MGTD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a10Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem280313121765QQitemZ280313121765QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Larry
Larry Shoer

Thanks again Bud for your kind offer, and you too Larry for the heads up. I've agreed to buy the 4 frame pieces from Steve Tobias, so I'll replate those. The frame now on ebay would be fine for a '52 or earlier, but not for the '53 and it's center mounted wiper motor.

I will be calling several places on Monday to get a charge for replating the 4 frame pieces and the spare side supports and cowl brackets I've acquired. Just found out the local place I've used in the past is out of business.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

OK, I'm all ready now to have the windscreen components and the cowl mounting components, I have acquired, rechromed. I'd like to get an idea what some of you paid for this, as I probably am going to have to use an out of city shop to do it, and I really don't want to get ripped. If anyone can recall a "ballpark" figure for what they paid, and with whom, I'd appreciate it.

A place in Houston quoted me $55 each piece for the cowl brackets and side supports. Seemed reasonable for the cowl brackets but a bit high for the side supports, but maybe not. I didn't ask them at the time about the windscreen frame cost.

TIA

Larry
L Karpman

January until June is prime time for platers... you will pay top price and longest waiting time right about now (maybe april, may might be a longer wait). Plating seems to be an "ummm... ohhh... 'bout a hunert dollars" kind of business!
I pick up a piece on Wednesday...$125.00

gblawson(gordon)

Larry, you generally get what you pay for. The biggest problem with chroming is over-buffing the parts, which rounds sharp edges and changes the shape. Very, very important to not alter the mitred ends of the ws frame. Paul's did mine, and even though they are meticulous there was some alteration of the mating faces, either from polishing or build-up of the copper/chrome, etc. I don't remember cost, but it was not cheap. By that point I had long stopped adding $ up! Remember the side pieces have a lot of detail- polishing around the studs without leaving scratches/swirls, masking or covering the threads, etc. This all takes time. George
George Butz

Larry, can't the earlier type top windshield frame be modified by drilling one hole in it for the center mounted motor? If so, do that before plating.
Jim Merz

Thanks Gordon/George/Jim. Jim, you can drill a center hole in a pre-'53 windscreen to mount the motor, but you would still have many extra holes on the left and right sides to fill with non-functional screws or bolts. Fortunately, the windscreen I got from Steve Tobias is for the '53.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Found another rechroming place locally (my old one is closed). I brought all eight pieces in for an estimate (2 cowl brackets, 2 side supports, and 4 pieces of the windscreen frame), and got an estimate for all at $250. I thought that was outstanding.

That is for chrome over nickel, as the parts are already brass. If I add $100 I can get copper, nickel, brass, but I'm unsure of the benefits other than what I was told. I was told the copper would fill imperfections in the base metal better. But, as the car is not a concours car, nor is this a full restore, I think I'll just go with the nickel and chrome. Comments welcomed.

Cheers

Larry

L Karpman

Larry,

I think you made the right decision for the windscreen frame. The copper, nickel, chrome is called triple plating. The copper deposite would fill voids in the brass (or in other cases, steel) and makes it easier to get a polish prior to the other plating. If your windscreen parts are in good shape, and the shop feels they can polish them, you will get a good result.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Thanks Dave. Do you recall the thread size for the windscreen frame screws?

I'm going to need to chase them all. I still cannot remove 3 of the 4 slotted head ones from the bottom piece's end brackets. I've soaked them for 2 days and still can't get them to budge. If the brackets weren't so rusty, I'd just leave them in place.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

OK, got those screws out. Still would like to know what size tap I need to buy to chase the threads in the windsceen frame.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Larry, just my 2 cents. Take a picture of every individual piece you plan to take in. Make a list of every piece and make sure the shop makes one with every piece listed seperately. Make sure you get a hard fixed price and also just as important a finish date. I'd talk to some of their past customers and ask to see some of their work. Both old and new. If you have anything else that you think needs to done, then now is a good time. I'd spend the extra 100 bucks if it was me and they can demonstrate they know what to do with it.

Good luck.
LED DOWNEY

Larry,

A 2BA or a 10-32 UNF will do for the screw tap.

dave
Dave Braun

Hi Larry, I hope that you were pleased with the windscreen components. I wanted to mention that I used the replacement corner brackets that come from Moss as well as their screw set. I did have to shorten some of the screws, but the brackets were perfect. The angles and hole placement were spot-on. Regards, Steve
Steven Tobias

Thanks LED, Dave & Steve. And yes Steve, I was very pleased.

The frame is now in for rechroming. I chose the triple plating. I photographed all pieces and placed onto a single page document, and had them sign for them on that paper, as well as an itemized receipt.

Steve: Do you recall which screws needed shortening? I have a new screw set ordered from Moss.

I have a quote to replace the glass (mine is scratched and pitted in spots), and assemble all into the rechromed frame for $155. I think that is quite reasonable.

Has anyone gone for the "modern" glass over the "clear" glass? I still have time to decide while awaiting the rechoming.

TIA

Larry
L Karpman

If you tighten it and the glass cracks it was too long! Seriously, it is hard to tell. All I can suggest is trying each corner bracket in with the new screws and make sure it doesn't thread through much at all. When I reassembled my frame, the glass was sitting too low, with the top glass edge just about even with the edge of the chrome. Glenn Leonard (Glenn's MG repair) told me he often has to make shims of plastic or wood to shim the glass up. This also holds the bottom edge of the glass off of the corner brackets and screws if they are a touch too long to prevent a crack. Worked like a charm for me. George
George Butz

George: I thought I'd maybe have the glass shop use the old hardware to assemble the glass and frame, then I'd replace the old hardware with new, one screw at a time, and measure the Moss hardware against the removed original screw, and cut it the same length befor I put it in. Of course that doesn't include the side bracket to frame screws, which are not part of the glass replacement process.

Makes semse to my "semi-fried" older brain :-)

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Larry, As I recall, it was mainly the bottom and lower side screws that needed cutting. The top corner screws weren't as much of an issue because the top brackets were a good deal thicker. I had a glass fabricater that I do business with cut me a pc of regular clear laminated glass. This glass is a bit thicker than the origional would have been. Some years ago the interliner was universally thickened from .016 to .030. This actually makes it a bit snugger, but I think that this makes for a stronger assembly. I used the flat rubber material that Moss sells for the glazing and it was fine. I had to squeeze the frame on with a bench vise. You want it to be a fairly tight fit because there is not much penetration into the top section. If it is loose, the weight and leverage of the wiper motor will always tend to loosen it.
I never actually checked the tap size-I'm sure that if Dave Braun says its 10-32, then that is what it is. Moss does supply a hex nut so you can chase the threads after you do the cutting.
You are going to love having a new, haze-free glass to look through-Ahh, the simple pleasures! I'm glad that this is working out well for you. Regards, Steve
Steven Tobias

Thanks Steve. I had read in the archives that the modern glass is a bit thinner than the OEM older glass, so the Moss glass seal may be too loose. I alerted the glass man to that, and he said "no problem, we can solve that." So, either way he appeared unphased by it.

I'm still trying to decide whether I want some tint in the glass or leave it OEM clear.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Larry,

Just my opinion, but tinted glass on a TD looks silly, and interfers with the clean look of the chrome. Besides, so much of what you see driving a convertible isn't tinted. My advice? Wear a good pair of Ray-Bans in Brown 3.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Dave, I drive so much with the screen down, and the Broolands up, I don't even know why I was considering tinted.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

One more question for the experts. I'm sure you all removed your Auster plates before rechroming, so how did you peen it back on with new rivets?

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Sorry to bump this to the top of the list, but I'd really like someone to try and answer my question.

"I'm sure you all removed your Auster plates before rechroming, so how did you peen it back on with new rivets?"

TIA

Larry
L Karpman

Mine was missing when I got the car. So new plate and new rivots after the frame was plated.
LED DOWNEY

That's my question LED. How did you peen the plate on the frame?? No room to hammer it. I have to do the same as you.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

To be honest I don't remember (like a lot of things) Larry, but I seem to remember the friction fit was enough to do the job.
LED DOWNEY

those little rivets (pins) are held in by friction only.
Sandy
conrad sanders

OK LaVerne and Sandy, thanks!!

Larry
L Karpman

This thread was discussed between 11/02/2009 and 02/03/2009

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.