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MG TD TF 1500 - Wing Height

Help,

I am fitting the various body parts together prior to blasting and painting to make sure that they all fit. In the process I'm identifing all of the dings and dents and fixing them as I go along. My '53 TD has seen a lot of little dings and tears as I closely examine all of the sheet metal. For that matter I guess I have had a lot of dings and dents as well over the years. I am trying to make sure that all of the metal is as close to uniform from one side to the other and that all dimensions are as close as practically possible. I have installed the front wings and checked the height using a couple of framing squares as a type of caliper. It turns out that the right wing is 3/8 inch lower than the left wing. I think that I can get most of that difference out with some minor adjustments. The tire pressures are the same from left to right. Now, I know that not everyone is going to care or notice this small difference (my wife thinks that I am too anal) but in the process of trying to correct it I checked a friends car and found out that where my wings are roughly 31 1/2 from the ground to the top of the wing, his were 28 and 27 inches from the ground to the top. My question is this: what is the "correct" height of the wings from the ground to the top of the wings? I believe that my TD has never had any major damage so the figures that I have are probably okay but now I am curious.
Mark Strang

Mark, is the present weight of your car the same as your friends? Might check if there is a difference in the distance from ground to frame. Greetings, Huib
Huib Bruijstens

Mark, pretty hard to compare car to car, as weight must be the same, tires identicle, etc. I think the most important thing is eyeball alignment. The front bumper to fender distances are crucial with the front TD/TF fenders. The bumper bar should be exactly parallel with the ground to start with. The same area side to side at the front of the fenders (I mean wings) has to be the same (ie from the middle of the upward curve, etc.), or they will look crooked. I would get this perfect, and forget about the top height. Of course you also have to have the headlight bars mounted, as they support the fender, and can change the height quite a bit. There is some adjustment in the chrome pieces (that the big bolt goes through) to the center tie-bar on the radiator, as the holes in the bar are oversize (ie you can loosen the two small bolts and raise/lower the fender and then tighen). Hope this makes sense. George
George Butz

George,
Thanks for the info. I am pretty sure that I've got the wings straight relative to the bumper bar. I also have used the headlight supports and radiator brackets to get the height to where it is now. I guess that I will disregard the TD that I measured and continue on as I have been and go along with your comments as a guide. Thanks again.

Mark
Mark Strang

Mark.
George hit it on the head. Go by eyeball with the bumper horizontal.. Remember that these wings were not stamped out like cookies but hand bashed with a wooden buck.
About twenty years ago our local club here in West Central Florida was on an outing to Chrystal River Florida. We stopped at a little roadside park for lunch and 4 motorcyclists pulled in and came over to our cars. They were all retired metal bashers from the MG factory and were telling us how they did the work. It's a pity we did not have a camera or recording device that day.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

I've never measured mine, so I went out in the garage. There might be almost a half inch of difference. Has anyone ever noticed? Nope.

By the way, it is possible that your suspension has been pre-tightened prior to the proper settling of the components or the weight on the wheels. All the front suspension bolts except those mounting the shcoks to the chassis and the brake back plates to the kingpin should be loose (not snugged) until the body is in place and the car has been jostled and rolled to settle all the bits. Then tighten and cotter the nuts. Also, the road springs should be the same height side to side. You check that before assembly of the front suspension. Finally, the rear springs can also affect the front of the car on its respective side, so the rear suspension also should not be tightened until the load is on the car.

take care,
dave
Dave Braun

Just a thought....
Living in a 100 year old farm house and have been re-modeling the kitchen for the last week....
Laser Level : Check
Standard Levels : Check
T-Squares : Check
Plumb Bob : Check
Everything lined up perfectly using the above : Check
"Looks" straight & True : Oh H**L NO!
Let's go for the "illusion" of what looks straight in here : Check!
OK ...that works.
Just a thought.
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Dave Braun,
Your point is well taken. When I did the chassis I made sure that nothing you mentioned was tight for the very reason that I figured the car had to "adjust" to proper heights after being re-assembled. I guess that I will plod along and continue to fit, check, and repair all of the sheet metal as I have been doing.
Your car and the web-site have been great to review. Didn't find your site 'til I had my rolling chassis done. I'm impressed with you car and the work that went into it. If your wings are off by a half inch then I guess that I'm not going to worry about mine being off by a little bit. My wife insists that I will be the only person that will ever know. She's always right of course!
And to Dave S. You are right. The engineer in me gets in the way of things like that. Sometimes I give up on the data and just go with what works.
Mark Strang

"The engineer in me gets in the way of things like that"
I CAN relate..who else would gut a hundred year old kitchen and attempt to re-build armed with an Auto Cad drawing accurate to 200,000th of an inch! LOL
And yes ..."they" are always right..(kitchen looking good ...being built from HER sketches on cocktail napkins and brown paper bags!)
Cheers,
David
David Sheward

I have noticed a similar (if not greater) difference in my '53 TD and I think it may have to do with variations in the front wings.

Can you tell the difference between early and late wings? (I believe it has to do with a dimple to clear the taller Armstrong dampers in the late TDs.)

Do your left and right wings match, dimple-wise?

Mark Sherman
mrkshrmn at hotmail dot com
Mark A. Sherman

There is a squarish raised area just above the shock body on the later fenders for cars with Armstrong shocks. As far as I know, that is the only difference. Should be the same both sides, but who would notice? George
George Butz

To solve this, you firstly need to determine the origin of the dissymmetry, it could be in the chasis/suspension or in the bodywork.
One way to do this is to drive the car on a known flat floor, remove both front and back bumpers, replace the bumper fixing bolts in their holes then measure the height of the left and right bolts from the floor, I used a try square held on to a spirit level with a G cramp. If the dimensions from left to right are different then you have an issue with the chassis or suspension. You need to check: front springs, rear springs king pin position, tyres, etc. If the dimensions are equal then you can try to equalize the wing height by loosening ALL the fixing bolts from the headlight bracket bolts under the wing, through the radiator to headlight support brackets all the way through to the other wing, then you should be able to move each wing up or down to get an equal height. Once this done tighten everything again. If you cannot get them equal AND you are going to repaint the wings then you can slot the headlamp bracket holes (on the wing), with a file. I did this a few years ago and got them to within an eighth of an inch of each other.

N.B. To get an accurate measurement it may help to push the car forward and backwards a few feet two or three times.

John
J Scragg

we get those crap chinese g cramps here too.
Shawn

OK everyone...put down the tape measures and walk away from the cars.....!!!!
gblawson(gordon)

This thread was discussed between 12/07/2009 and 16/07/2009

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