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MG TD TF 1500 - Wings in general

A few more questions just to satisfy my curiosity. Did they apply any body fillers to the wings during production? I am stripping all the body panels at a pretty good rate but I am finding stripping the front wings very irritating. So much so that if my front wings had a stomach I would punch them in it. The horrible welded crack repair on one I mentioned in an earlier post. Many small fractures and bends. And a small amount of filler I do not believe my father placed. Now on the back wings it is a different story. On both wings there is a large and thick amount of filler on the outer edge about 1 inch high as if they were both creased in the same spot. It seems odd they would have the same defect or owner damage to the same spot. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob
Rob Welborne

Rob,

Thinking back to my first TD during the late 50's you might be talking about repairs accomplished by an early owner with few skills and even less money. Remember in the late 50's these under powered cars were selling for a few hundred dollars when most young men wanted a fuel injected 57 Chevy.

It is a disappointment to find these repairs in our beloved antiques but most can be rectified. Hammer and dolly work can repair dents and good body shops can re-weld with modern MIG or TIG equipment and proper filler rod.

We share your disappointment and look forward to reports on your repairs.

Cordially,

Jim Haskins

1953 TD
J. M. Haskins

Rob, wings on TD are very susceptible to a crack on hte outer wing when someone or somehting pushes from the front and they crack . They are in the same spot on both sides of my car. The piece of metal that runs on the outer edge under the fender bends in the same spot. it is supposed to be a piece to strengthen the fender but over the years, well you know breaks occur.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Rob

Plastic filler (i.e. Bondo) is a relatively new product. In the 1950's through early 1960's lead was used. When I stripped my TD, I found a lead spot right behind the passenger door. Looks like someone ran into the side.

No filler of any type on any other part of my 1950 TD. Not saying that if a dent occurred at the factory, that they would not have filled it, but it would have been lead.

Also, when I stripped my TD, I found inspection ink stamps on each part. All numbers for my car were within 100 or so of each other, with the exception of the rear fender on the side where the lead was. More indication it probably got hit there and they replaced the fender.

Bondo was not made to really fill in a dent. Proper repair would be to pull/bang out the dent, heat the metal and work it to get it as close as possible and then use a thin coat of bondo to smooth the imperfections.
Bruce Cunha

Rob-
There was no filler then. If real filling were needed, it would be lead. There might be very thin nitrocellulose putty (aka unthinned primer)used, but it is not usual.
Pictures might allow some forensics.
I personally would not even consider MIG or TIG, gas welding and hammer finishing is the correct method of repair; torch repairs can be hammer finished without any grinding or filler. Electric welding of any sort is difficult to finish and prone to cracks.

FRM
FR Millmore

FR,

Not to be contrary, but truly skilled oxy/acetylene welders are harder and harder to find in the body shop industry as are those who can do lead work. As a former welding inspector I will agree that many MIG users are more interested in speed than quality but a well skilled TIG man can create nearly invisible joints than will pass ASTM thin-wall pressure vessel tests every time. What I do not know is the availability of filler (rod) suitable for our antique steel. What is your experience?

Best regards,

Jim Haskins

1953 TD
J. M. Haskins

Jim-
Yes, we are a dying breed, as are skilled body men of any ilk. I've had "professionals" with lots of uniform patches and diplomas stare in disbelief at things I've straightened, welded, and hammer finished. Pity, as gas is much more versatile in repair and fab work. The only way this art will be saved is if people learn and use it. I learned upside down under my rusty Magnette, c1968. A weld that passes pressure tests etc. is not necessarily or even usually a weld that can be hammered to correct the panels. I can TIG and have, and have the (not very good but affordable at the time) equipment, though I certainly do not claim to be any expert on that. The only common welding stuff I don't have is light gauge MIG, but I can do heavy stuff. I bought the MIG to rebuild my big truck aluminum dump trailer, so it is primarily for heavy material. I will always grab the torch for any metal that requires post weld work. Torch is most especially superior for material that is of unknown spec, or dirty, rusty, etc. Fillers are not a problem, and older heavier metal is much easier to do than the modern high strength tissue paper - which you are not supposed to weld anyway.

For more info, look up Kent White, aka "Tinman". I just bought the stuff to properly gas weld stainless, after years of wanting it but no shekels; I figured it in as better than paying for all the exhaust systems it would take to do what my new stainless ones will. Had I done this 6 years ago, I would now be ahead on cash and wouldn't have to build two exhausts now. The $187 piece of filter glass for proper flux welding hurt! You can also do aluminum, titanium, inconel, etc.

Best,
FRM
FR Millmore

FRM

You have me convinced, I'll b e by in the morning ;) Seriously, your new capability sounds fantastic. I continue to be amazed at how quickly one falls behind when leaving gainful employment behind.

Best regards,

Jim Haskins

1953 mg td
J. M. Haskins

???gainful employment???
Wha dat?

FRM
FR Millmore

I appreciate the help. After I strip all the paint and filler I will take them to the Hot Rod shop. They specialize in sheet metal work so I am hoping for good news from them on what it will take to make my wings beautiful again.

Rob
Rob Welborne

An interesting conversation. I am just learning MIG welding and have done a few repair panels for two modern cars.

My brother is currently restoring a 1946 Dodge power wagon, The first civilian power wagon. This one was used on a lumber yard and has some good dents in various parts. Hammering these out is very tough work. The steel used was much thicker that even what we have on the TD.

A lot of heating and pounding, but he learned from my uncle who was an expert with gas and also lead.
Bruce Cunha

Bruce -
Yep, real iron!
How about this? When I rebuilt my trailer, I had to flatten dents in the floor, many. I hauled scrap, so some were nasty. The new floor crossmembers were in different positions to the old ones, and the dents kept the floor from sitting where they had to be. So, I got to beat dents out of .300" thick hard aluminum plate, upside down, hammering up, with sledgehammers. Big iron blocks (150lb)inside the trailer as dollies.

FRM
FR Millmore

OK gents,
For the most part I have the front wings sanded. I even found a spot on one wing where they filled a dent with fiberglass. Right wing in pretty good shape, left is banged up pretty good. I am delivering both to the sheet metal worker so he can correct one with comparison to the other. Does anyone have some close up pictures of the curves of their wings in the front and down the side from a coiuple of angles? It would be nice to give them a visual reference to work with as well.

As always, everyones help is greatly appreciated.

Rob
Rob Welborne

Rob, a minor detail -- TD or TF? Bud
Bud Krueger

Sorry, TD

rob
Rob Welborne

This thread was discussed between 26/04/2012 and 29/04/2012

MG TD TF 1500 index

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