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MG TD TF 1500 Wipers don't work BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - Wipers don't work
| I have a "53 TD(29885). New wiper arms and the linkage were purchased from Moss to replace a battered set that was on the car when I got it. The new arms and linkage pivot arm have so much tension on the flat springs in the arms and center linkage arm that that the motor just won't run. I have three motors and none of them will power the assembly. I compared the old set to the new set and while the old assembly is real wimpy in strength and function, they will at least operate. I'm sure, as everyone has said, that Rainx is the solution, but I would like to install the new parts because the old assembly is horrible in appearance. I am puzzled as to why the springs are so stiff and am curious how other folks have solved the problem. The arms just put so much pressure on the glass that the motor can't overcome the friction of rubber on the glass even with water on the windshield. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| Try moving the arms out a bit on their mounting pegs before tightening them up. Check wiring and ground connection. If wiring has been replaced hope it was the right gauge? Too fine a wire will be a problem for the motor. Brian |
| ZBMan |
| Brian, I moved them out as far as I could and the tension on the arms is still too much. The wiring is okay as far as I can tell. It is the usual little wire that runs in the windshield frame. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| I have exactly the same problem and must look at it in more detail. It appears to be the old rubbish repro parts issue re-surfacing. Regards Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Another thing you might look at is the possibility of dried grease in the motor gear box. I have three motors and they all were really stiff with dry grease. Cleaning them and then regreasing made a big difference in their functioning. |
| A. R. Todd |
| What is the correct gauge wiring for the wiper motor on a TD? Mike |
| M Marini |
| I've had the motors apart and cleaned and lubed the gearboxes. They all function fine. The problem is that the flat metal arm rides on a cam of some sort in the head that attaches to the bushing going through the windshield frame and acts as a spring to keep tension on the blades. There is too much tension on the blades. There would have to be a motor with about 20 times the output power to drive these blades. It seems as if the arms just have too much tension in them. Moss didn't get this right. They are too good and don't work. Has anyone modified thgeir arms to work? Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| Mark can you post a photo of the arms in place, from an angle. Sounds like the pivot pins are too short. (which would put too much tension on the arms).... I have gotten arms from Moss, and they work fine. Edward  |
| E.B. Wesson |
| Edward, it looks like you have an earlier TD with the wiper motor on the passenger strip and I note tht the connecting rod is the double bend kind. Mine is a later TD (25009)with the motor in the middle but it came from PO also with the double bend connecting rod. Is the connecting rod on the later TD supposed to be the straight one? Can anyone post a picture similar to E.B.'s of a correct later TD set up? Thanks. Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| Edward, Here is photo of my installation. I actually have two '53 TD's. One was made on the last day of production so it certainly is a late model TD. The wipers don't work on my show car and since I don't intend to drive it in the rain, it doesn't make any difference although I wish they did work. I just put off trying to get them to operate. The second TD is my driver and I want them to work. The wiper arms are the same in both cases and both sets have too much spring action putting excessive pressure on the blades which in turn cannot be powered by the motor. My installation is the one where the motor is in the center of the windshield. The arms look just like yours except for the nut on the outside of the arm. I've tried moving the arms out as far as possible and it doesn't make any difference. Mark  |
| Mark Strang |
| The reason they don't work is because they are made wrongly. You can see in the photo that there is a kink on the original whereas the repro only has a slight bend. The metal thickness on both arms is the same at 1.6mm. The spring stiffness on the repro is about three times greater than the original. I'll consider drilling out the rivets and introducing a kink and post back. Declan  |
| Declan Burns |
| Declan, The trick is getting the right amount of "kink". You aare right about the stiffness. Let me know what you find out. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| While digging in my attic, I found 1) likely 1970's Lucas late TD wiper arm, with the sharper bend in the spring. Even and light tension throughout movement. and 2) one of the first "nut on front" repos from when they first came out some years ago. Same problem: the spring is flat, and it is very stiff. I recall problems with these also, but with bending/fiddling they worked for a few years. Glad this thread came up- I replaced my arms late summer, and now the wipers don't work!! Does anyone have a source for the rivets? That is the only way I know to fix- drill them our and kink the spring. Great detective work guys! George |
| George Butz |
| Could the difference in pressure against the glass also be introduced by using the straight connecting rod instead of the one with the double bend? It seems to be that allowing the driving arm from the motor shaft to connect closer to the glass would reduce overall pressure of the blades against the glass. Then again, maybe it wouldn't be enough to matter. Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| Jud, I've bent my connecting rod to try to sole this problem and it doesn't make any difference.I've also bent the wiper arm to try to solve the issue. This only causes the blade to lose contact with the windshield when it is at the end of the pass. The problem is clearly in the spring tension on the arm. I hate to destroy one arm to try to fix the problem, but it may be the only way to approach the fix. I'll wait to see what Declan comes up with before I attempt to fix the tension. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| Mike, when I rebuilt my TD, I did not like the wire for the WSW motor because I thought it was too thin to carry any amperage. So, I reassambled the windshield wiring with some black flat stranded copper lamp cord. It did not make problems in reassembly and I felt better about my choice. The WSW motor still runs well after 25 years. |
| Jim Merz |
| Even on those cars that the wiper turns, they don't work very well. I just use Rainex and that works better than any TD wiper. Mine are not even hooked up since the rebuild of the windscreen. |
| Tom Maine (TD8105) |
| Tom, I agree with you on the effectiveness of the wipers. Rainex will be used. It's just bugging me that they don't work. I'm from the U.P.(Houghton) and my fraternity brother, who I bought this car from, used to drive this car in the snow (200+ inches per year) up there so I know that they will work to a certain extent. There has got to be a way to make them somewhat functional. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| Mark I dont own a TD however this is my two bobs worth. If I interpreted correctly you have the original wiper arms. If you can access a spring balance, secure the arm and using the balance measure the force being exerted by the spring on the lower pivot. Repeat the process on the new arms. If there is a difference I would consider dismantling the arms and exchanging the tension springs. Also whilst the springs are removed I would measure their length and compare their bent profile. If there are dramatic differences fit the old arm springs into the new ones. On reassembly I would temporarily replace the rivets with small machine bolts and nuts to facilitate testing the outcome, you can fit rivets once you have a positive result. Its a pain in the proverbial when you purchase new components and they dont fit, I have lost count of the instances I have experienced modifying brought in bits for my TF. Its all part of owning a relic. Graeme |
| G Evans |
| I introduced the kink on one and it was fine. I wasn't quite so lucky on the second attempt and had too much. That's where the problem starts. There's no going back. By squashing some 6mm brass tube over the kink I was able to re-introduce some tension but I am not quite happy with it. As soon as our visitors leave I will drill out the two rivets and redo the kink. M2 screws can be used to replace the rivets until it is set up correctly. The photo show the successful attempt. Declan  |
| Declan Burns |
| Declan, You did the only thing that I figured could be done. I guess that it's just trial and error until it gets right. Let me know how the repair to the arm turns out along with a photo of the bolts that you put in place. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| Mark maybe there is another solution without dismantling the spring. If you are able to drill a small hole at the back of the spring and drill and tap tread in to it put a small screw in. By putting some tension ( screw in the the bolt )and lift the spring you are probably able to adjust the spring tension a bit . Just an idea Gerard |
| Gerard Hengeveld |
| Gerard, It might be worth a try. I'll try to get to it tomorrow and see if it looks like it will work. I have an old wiper arm that I could play with. It's useless for any application but it might be good as test piece. Mark |
| Mark Strang |
| Declan, what tool or pliers did you use to make the bend? |
| George Butz |
| I'm inclined towards Tom's suggestion - RainX. I just reinstalled my wipers and motor and, frankly, the car looked better "clean" - no wipers or motors. I'm planning on getting some shiney chromed screws and cap nuts to fill all the holes in the top of the windscreen, applying RainX and putting the wiper assembly on the wall in the garage for display. Not having a hood reinforces my plans to never intentionally drive in rain. Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| George, A screw driver to lever up the spring/arm and a small drill bit pushed in underneath to stop it springing back. Then a mini vice grips to form the kink. Be very careful in case the screw driver slips as it did on me. Slowly increase the kink as I can see no way back without removing the rivets to remove the spring/arm. Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Declan, I'll give that a try. Here in Florida, you legally have to have working wipers. Rain-x great, but once driving home from a GOF in a deluge the wipers sure helped. George |
| George Butz |
| Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and spent some time adjusting the tension. It's a bit of a fiddle but a counter weight helps to get it right. The first photo shows the dismantled wiper. The second photo show it back together with M2 screws and nyloc nuts. M2.5's will fit but I didn't have any. The hole in the arm is 2.7mm and the holes in the little retaining plates are 3mm. Regards Declan  |
| Declan Burns |
| Back together and when fitted you don't even notice the screws. Declan  |
| Declan Burns |
| i have rainX in the glove box, but the wipers work fine with a little TLC. i was driving past o'hare field the summer before last as a storm that dropped 9" of rain in an hour hit the airport using airport transfers tonbridge. you take a 3000 mile trip you are going to drive in the rain. i think it is worth while to get them working. however, i can see how some feel the same about these wipers as we feel about boeing's rain repellant system on the Boeing jets...i remember a Captain telling me a long time ago..."if it is raining so hard you think you need to use the rain repellant...you should not be there..." i passed that info along to many a co-pilot over the years. regards, tom |
| tom peterson |
This thread was discussed between 12/12/2012 and 25/12/2012
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