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Triumph TR6 - Rear Hub Play - Adjustable?
|Hi all. I recently acquired a 68 TR250, and being new to the wonderful world of 6 cyl. TRs ( I have owned many MGs and several earlier TRs in the past) I have a few questions concerning the rear hub bearings.|
On my car I can feel a noticible amount of play when I grab the top of the wheel and rock it in and out (tires on the ground). In driving there are no unusual noises from the rear end, but there is a clunk when first moving from rest from the right side, a UJ I beleive.
The UJ s dont appear to be much of a problem as the entire axel (driveshaft) assembly comes out so easily. I have searched the archives and there are some posts that imply it is possible to undo the lock washer and adjust the hub bearings. Is this worhtwhile or should I just bite the bullet (at$225 per side) to replace the hub assemblies? If they can be adjusted, can they be greased? Could replacement wait a few months (less than 2,000 miles of driving)for a more opportune time?
|The posting above was actually made by me, with apologies to Gerard. This BBS occassionally mixes up our names, and I missed it. I just went back and changed my personal details for the umpteenth time.|
|Andy, a TR250, those are getting rare these days, you're lucky. I would bite the bullet myself and I have in the past. The rear hubs can be very tricky and you should definitely NOT be driving your car if you alot of play in those hubs. They have a way of breaking when you need them most ( high speed corners)|
Whats that old saying,"Take care of it and it will take care of you" I say this because I saw some footage
taken from inside the cockpit of a TR taking a corner when the hub fractured, the car rolled several times.
|Andy-You can adjust the end float, taking care not to go below .002". I have adjusted mine as they sometimes do loosen with age. To lube the bearings would require diassembly and replacement of the collapsible spacer-almost as much work as rebuilding. I have heard of adding a grease fiting between the bearings, but have never seen it done. A place called "Axleworks" (firstname.lastname@example.org) rebuilds hubs for $165 exchange, seems to get a lot of reccomendations, and offers a 12mo/12k warranty. They advertise on the VTR classifieds|
Some good advice: DON'T DRIVE THE CAR. Get this looked at ASAP. Sounds like you may have some of the hub studs stripped in the trailing arm. I had the same problem. The trailing arms are aluminum and the six steel studs hold your hub to the trailing arm. The recommended torque setting is only about 24 lbs (check this on the CD, could be 26 - 28 )and as most mechanics or PO's don't know this (or simply don't care) they often strip the threads in the aluminum arm by overtorquing. Pull your drums and rotate the hub til you see the stud thru the access hole in the flange. Put a socket to each stud nut in turn and see if they are loose. If so, torque to 24 lbs and if it still spins the hole is probably stripped. Check both sides. Some may have just backed off. Even if more than one is stripped you can probably tighten the rest enough to stop the play in the wheel. If the wheel tightens up you have found your problem. If you can satisfactorily tighten all to torque specs you may not have a problem. Get a qualified TR mechanic to look at this in any case. If you have stripped stud holes Don't Drive The Car like this. If that is your problem you will have to drill and helicoil the stud holes. You can do it on the car if you are very sure of your drilling skills or you can remove the trailing arms and have a machine shop do it.This site has a wealth of very good info on this problem and I got a lot of good advice on my problem. Check the Archives under posts for Helicoil and Trailing Arms. Also check the CD if you have it. This is potentially a very dangerous condition and you should get it looked after immediately. It will not be very expensive.
|Thanks for the info guys! I have been lurking on this site soaking in information while I waited for the PO to find the title, etc. In all it took about 2 mos. of waiting for him to get his act together. The car was a non-runner when I bought it, so I didnt have any chance to check it out on the road. It is a practically rust free Texas car that sat almost unused for ten years in the POs garage. I guess it was lucky he didnt drive it much!|
After the deal was clinched I installed a rebuilt distributor (thanks to Team Triumph) in his driveway and drove it home.The vacuum advance can on the old one had a huge crack, and fell off in my hand the first time I tried to reset the timing. The PO had sent it to a local Corvette garage who had managed to screw it up. Wrong plugs, distributor installed 180 degs out of time and the spark wires rearranged to get the firing order. That threw me off until I studied the manual!
Three months ago I was a contented MGB owner until my brother found this car only 5 minuted from my house. Needless to say I made an offer and then sold my MG pronto!
I havent driven much since because the tires were dangerously dry rotted. I installed new tires and Dayton wire wheels last week and drove it for about 20 miles to get a real feel for it. Now the mechanical problems are showing themselves, but I'd rather deal with them than body work.
Bob: the amount of play is about what you would feel with loose front wheel bearings. Just enough that I detect a slight movement with my finger between the hub and the brake drum. I will remove the drums tomorrow night and have a look. I read on the UK TR Forum that the torque setting was 10-16 ft-lbs. Can anyone verify?
|Sorry, but with all due respect, if the trailing arm stud holes aren't already stripped, they probably will be if 24 ft lbs. of torque is applied. Hayne's recommends 14-16 ft. lbs. Your info from the TR Forum is correct, Andy|
Ouch! Sorry about that. Andy: I was sure it was in the 20's but stand corrected. It's (the torque setting)not in either of my cheaper manuals and thought I read 24 somewhere but Haynes would be correct. At least you don't have the drums off yet so no damage done I hope. Apologies all.
|Bob- Shame on you!|
|Bob: No harm, no foul I say! Thanks for your interest.|
You got that 6 running yet? BTW, saw the pic of your car & for the last 2 weeks, my dash looks like yours. Lotsa wires huh? Just spent 20 min looking on the CD for torque settings for the trailing arm stud torque settings. Anybody know where it is on the CD? Rick, you did yours according to the archives. Any advice?
I checked both rear hubs and the nuts were tight. With the wheels off I could induce play by twisting the wheel flange and then see the play on the end of the male half of the sliding joint. I think the bearings are indeed shot :>(
Which brings up another question: how much play is allowable in the splines of the driveshaft? There seemed to be quite a bit. The little bit of grease I could see with the gaiter pushed away was pretty dried out.
|Bob- Page 16|
P.S. the answer is no
|Bob and Don|
Just looked up the torque setting. I found the setting on page 21 (torque settings/Rear suspension). The manual kinda hides the setting by calling it "Trailing arm to brake plate". Well the brake plate attaches to the hub bearing housing which attaches to the trailing arm. The setting is 16 Lbs ft. Even went into the manual where the re and re is and it just said do the reverse. You would think there would be a warning "do not over tighten".
|Sorry Bob,Should clarify,torque setting start on page 16. It didn't occur to me that they hid them. I didn't remember a hide and seek game when I did mine.|
Thanks guys. Mine are coming out (again) when I reinforce the diff mounts and add new diff mount bushings. Will remember 16 lbs but do wonder if it may be possible to tighten just a tad more with the new "helicoils" in place. Rumor has it that the helicoil insert is much sturdier that the original aluminum.
P.S. One week to new paint. Looks like # 19 white. Afraid to change!!! Don: is that a new aftermarket wiring harness in your 6? I've been looking on the net (linked from this BBS) and see a really nice replacement harness with better wiring and fuse setups for about $350 US. Might be a project for next winter.
This thread was discussed between 02/05/2005 and 08/05/2005
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