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Triumph TR6 - Throwout bearing noise
|Replaced my cluch, throwout bearing, new sleave and pins, and cross shaft bolt last year. While car is at idle, i can hear the throwout bearing spinning. The slave had a spring on it to pull the lever back. It was gone. I dont think the spring is stock. When i pull the lever towards the front of the car the bearing stops spinning. Hooked up another spring but it was too strong and the cluch would not work, had to take it off. |
two questions, is it normal to have to put a spring on the slave to avoid the throwout from spinning?
is there a better permanent fix instead of the spring trick?
|No spring that I know about.It is actually better for clutch to be in firm contact with throwout bearing. Thus the bearing turns (as do all others on the car) at all times and DOES NOT wear the release tangs of the clutch diaphrag, which CAN create a problem ahead of time.. Take off the spring and forget it. Don't worry,be happy. Peter|
|Thanks Peter, but wont my throwout wear out. I thought the thowout was not made to spin all the time.|
|Lionel-You might check the article on clutch bearing problems on the Buckeyetriumph site. Peter is right, but there are some problems depending on the brand of bearing used.|
What clutch and what brand throw are you using? Some are good some are junk.
The mating and whether it is in constant motion or latent most of time depends on the design of the current systems components. And if the bearing is designed to spin up or run constant?
I have read some of the bearings used in some setups are Toyota. Know of at least one Supra that had five changed under warranty back in late 80s? 500 kilometers and began to howl. The car was taken to an experienced "Read Old Vert Mati" :) Clutch guy rather than the dealer first time out of warranty who did a bit of mix and match. No further problem.
Let me know have quite a bit of info on this.
PS did you ever get your sender sorted out?
|No Bill, gas gauge still reads too high, put in a new voltage regulator, no change. The voltage at the gas sender end (at the tank) is over 13 volts. I know the wiring is the problem. I quess at some point i will have to remove the dash and rewire the gauge.|
My cluch is a standard borg and beck one. I had it rebuilt by express auto. They also replaced the sleave and the throwout bearing. I assume that the bearing is stock.
I feel that if i let it spin, i will wear it out and have to pull the tranny. I will continue to work on putting a spring on the slave. When I pull the lever back, the noise stops. This is the right thing to do, isnt it?
|On a TR3A, the ground is often quoted as the cause of a faulty gas tank sender unit. If the ground between the gauge body to the steel dash, and/or the ground from the gauge directly to the chassis frame is not there, the sender and/or gauge appear faulty. Try a temporary ground wire from the body of the gauge directly to a good frame point or back to the other post on the battery.|
Let us know if it helps.
I drove back from Colorado in my TR3A with the return spring broken on the rod for my slave cylinder and could hear the throw out bearing getting louder and louder. When I got home, I checked it and found the spring was broken, On a TR3A the spring is standard and the rod is threaded for adjustment. The throw out bearing was finished and the bell housing was full of steel powder and shavings from the bearing.
Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
|I've had back luck with the Borg & Beck stuff. One bearing went out in less than 30 days. I replaced last year with a Toyota Landcruiser bearing matched to a SACHS pressure plate for a Saab 900. I think this is the same setup for TRF super clutch. No problems so far. If your bearing is spinning (I know mine does, but is barely audible)I do not think that would lead to premature wear since there is no significant load on the bearing.|
|Lionel--The previous responses suggesting a peek at the Buckeye site are on target. To his credit and our benefit, Nelson Reidel has exhaustively researched the problems with the stock TR T/O bearing, 'sticky clutch' syndrome, as well as TRF's magic clutch kit. The bottom line is you should consider a kit supplied by Gunst (Germany) to permanently solve your woes. There are 6Pack members who've already alerted the Big 3 to the Gunst kit and requested they stock the item.|
I received my Gunst kit a few weeks ago and it included a high quality T/O bearing mounted on a bronze carrier, special grease, and a preload spring arrangement for the slave cylinder pushrod. Yes, the T/O bearing should be preloaded to spin at all times and the Sachs plate is preferred. I will be installing the Gunst at the next gearbox pull to correct an annoying sticky clutch.
Hope this helps.
|O.K.Rick, where did you get the kit?|
|There was recently a group buy coordinated by a guy in Pennsyvania for 30-35 of the Gunst kits. Rick is correct in stating that it is a nice looking collection of bits. On the group buy, the main savings was on shipping, but I seem to recall the overall (parts/shipping/etc.) total was about $105-110 USD for the bearing kit. To get the URL for Gunst, you can do a Dogpile or Google search if they don't have it listed on the Buckeye site. The Gunst website will let you order for US shipment. I was going to go that route, but found out about the group buy and decided to pick up a couple of the kits.|
|Don--I was part of the group order that I believe Steve P was part of. The order "coordinator" was Don Malling, and I'll be happy to give you his e-mail offline if you'd like to contact him. Last I heard he was getting another group buy together. Just send me your e-mail.|
Steve P was correct on the cost--$108.31 which included an additional $5.00 to cover UPS from Don's house to mine. The kit itself runs 85EUR. Also important are the two locating dowels for properly indexing the bellhousing to the rear engine plate (Don got those for the group too).
Here's the link to Nelsons "Reliable Clutch" tech brief that includes an e-mail address for Gunst.
|And the link is . . . |
|The current group buy has been limited to ten kits. The fellow in Germany supplying the kits has only ten at the moment. The latest buy has accounted for all ten and then about ten more last I saw. I am currently on that list of buyers and am looking forward to installing the unit as I am experiencing the same as Lionel. |
The folks that have received and installed theirs are quite pleased with the results.
Did you install or did they. Check with the Co. They may be of some help don't know them.
Has your car been parked all winter? You may get lucky and after a bit of a run bearing may quiet down? Some just don't like the cold.
As pointed out the bearings are designed for pre-load run constant after the 4A. Unfortunately keeping it out of contact and getting in a spinup situation each time clutched might wind up killing the bearing fast.
How many miles did you get out of it?
For this part undo the negative at battery first. Until things are open and then reconnect. When sparks are flying the right wrench to undo the battery will not be found! Always leary of cars with any wire problem. I mean more than Mr. Lucas designed in?
As for the wires you can reach up behind and undo the thumb nuts on speedo just loose and then turn the lock plates slide it foreward and get at the regulator on back. Most times speedo cable will come forward enough? Check if you have under 12v when running and when stopped. Sometimes people do some strange things with wiring radios etc. If someone over the last 30 years picked up a second feed to the fuel gauge circuit isolating the regulator the reg. becomes useless. Power should come from regulator to temp. and then fuel gauge light green wire.
Run a clip from speedo to ground once gauge is out. Speedo case and regulator ground often are those clamps to dash for speedo. Sometimes there is a black ground wire from the speedo case but don't bet on it. If its there check continuity from regulator case to ground point and !!!-battery!!! Speedo cable will try to act as ground but doesn't do a good job if at all. Also look for a nice green copper patina at connectors and gunge and rust where regulator attaches to case. Very artsy on copper roofs but sucks as a conductor. Common on "old Vert" cars.:)
Check Volts at reg. at both stopped ign. on and running should not increase or very little. If it does disconect from output side and try again to remove possability of second feed. And always make sure you have a good ground from reg. to -battery through all this.
As Don pointed out usually a ground problem. The most common problem I find on project cars especialy ground up Rods TRs etc and wiring. Nobody checks continuity between panels when building. All that nice painting of every part and in some cases sealing every screw with silicone "MY BABY WILL NEVER RUST" plays pure hell with grounds. I know I was the guy putting that little dab of silicone on every body bolt and screw many years ago. Even when you check right away building wet sealant conducts dry does not. Kind of neat though every time I pulled on emergency brake the doors locked. Rod not a TR.
E-mail me with what you find if you want. Might be easier. Or jump in the car and tour on down just in Guelph. You meet the nicest people lost in that Forks of the Credit Park Area :)
|Not a good week. Put a spring on my slave, stoped the throwout bearning noise, but also stopped the cluch from working. Pulled the pushrod too far back in to the sl so that there was not enough movement to make the cluch work. At this point I decided to leave things the way they were. No spring.|
The gas gauge has got me baffeled. It is not a ground problem. It is a wiring problem. The voltage regulator is not doing anything. If i unplug it, the gauge does not work. There is 12 volts in and over 13 out with the engine running. Not sure how to wire it. I cant figure it out from the diagrams. Not to smart but very good looking.
Yeah I can relate. The green as in dark green wire goes to the connector marked B. The light green wire for your gauges goes to I. The case is the ground. You mentioned you replaced it I hope the same markings are used.
|Ok Bill I will try that.|
This thread was discussed between 23/03/2003 and 28/03/2003
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